In an uncharacteristically focused episode, our host dives headfirst into Deadpool & Wolverine and the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Joined by frequent guest and friend of the show, Matt Baughman, and new guest, Variant Steve (Custer), the gang dissects Deadpool 3, starring the ever-sarcastic Ryan Reynolds, and the future of Marvel's cinematic landscape. Don't panic – the first 30 minutes are SPOILER FREE. And then we ruin everything. What happened?! What does it all mean?! Did Deadpool un-f*ck the MCU?! Why should Matt stop eating Swedish fish?! Buckle up for a chaotic ride through Deadpool 3 and the MCU with the madness that is Don't Encourage Us. Check out Steve Custer's work at Starwipe Films and Matthew Baughman's here. Then stalk your celebrity prey online at @spidey_steve and @mattybaughs on Instagram.
In an uncharacteristically focused episode, our host dives headfirst into Deadpool & Wolverine and the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Joined by frequent guest and friend of the show, Matt Baughman, and new guest, Variant Steve, the gang dissects Deadpool 3, starring the ever-sarcastic Ryan Reynolds, and the future of Marvel's cinematic landscape. Don't panic – the first 30 minutes are SPOILER FREE. And then we ruin everything.
What happened?! What does it all mean?! Did Deadpool un-f*ck the MCU?! Why should Matt stop eating Swedish fish?! Buckle up for a chaotic ride through Deadpool 3 and the MCU with the madness that is Don't Encourage Us.
Check out Steve Custer's work at Starwipe Films and Matthew Baughman's here. Then stalk your celebrity prey online at @spidey_steve and @mattybaughs on Instagram.
Welcome to Don't Encourage Us, the show where we talk about the big ideas behind fiction projects of all different kinds.
Books, movies, TV shows, video games, nothing's off limits.
I'm your host, Tim Miller, and I'm here with my special co-host, Matt Poole, AKA Matt Baughman, regular guest and actor about town.
And also with us is a special guest.
We call Variant Steve, who's also known as Steve Custer.
Welcome, Steve.
Hey, thanks for having me.
I also go by the moniker Spidey Steve, and I guess for today, if we've got a Matt Poole, I'll be Steve Irene.
Steve Irene, I like it.
Perfect.
So Matt, we usually check in, first thing, anything to promote?
I got nothing to promote, not one thing.
I just finished two shows, Midsummer Night's Dream, the Shakespeare show, I think I talked about the last time I was on.
That finished up, we performed in 90 degree weather outside, so that was a weight loss journey.
Dream come true, yeah.
But yeah, I'm actually a free agent right now.
I have nothing lined up.
So if anyone listening is casting any projects, just let me know.
I'm free.
Hire him.
I'm cheap too.
What about you, Steve?
I understand you do some acting, you do voiceover work, you've done a lot of stuff.
You got anything to promote for us?
Sure.
I guess I run a little bit of a gambit.
I guess stuff that I would promote right now since I'm new to the show is, I often work with a film company called Starwipe Films.
We participate in a lot of film festivals and they have a lot of great movies and a lot of great shorts.
So I'd encourage checking them out, whether that's on their website, which is Starwipe Films, or just going to YouTube, looking them up, looking up a couple of shorts, and I'll shamelessly plug a couple that I've been in, which is A Thousand Deaths, Kalei, or most recently Horizon.
So feel free to check out some short films, see some of my acting, or hit up my Instagram while I do shamelessly go by that moniker Spidey Steve.
I visit kids in local hospitals as Spider-Man, and I do that with Matt here as well, which is how we're connected as a rather dynamic duo, where Matt has been many heroes, and I'll let him plug all of them, but most recently we visited Baltimore Mount Sinai Hospital as Spider-Man and Ant-Man, which was a great time.
It's fun.
Well, I'm glad you shared that because Matt's too shy.
Oh, well, I'll shamelessly plug all that stuff.
Matt's been a wonderful wingman to me for years, so I'm so glad to be here, and thanks for having me, Jason.
That's why I brought him here, to gas me up.
And he is actually, he is the person who got me into comics.
We used to run like 5Ks.
I think we did like a half marathon, those kind of things.
And he was like my own personal podcast, where I'd literally just ask him a question about any comic.
And then it was a 30 minute podcast.
Oh, that's amazing.
Right live, right in my ear.
Yeah.
He got me into comics.
We met back in 2011, and anytime I have a question about anything, like who was that character, was based on a book, I go right to him.
Wow.
That's so sweet.
You guys are disgusting.
It is.
It is pretty disgusting in a very bromantic, Yeah, bromantic Deadpool and Wolverine kind of way.
I do have a very fond memory of us running around the Capitol and you asking me questions about Marvel Civil War.
And I gave you the entire comic book story next to the MCU's version.
And that was a fun race for me to not only catch my breath, but also tell you a whole story.
Epic.
I love it.
So I'm curious about some of the short and longer films that you've done, Steve.
Is there a particular genre that this production company tends to work in?
Or are they all over the place?
I'd say a little bit all over the place.
They also have a corporate side of their company that I've done some commercial work to.
And that is called Media in a Bottle.
But the duo that I work for a lot is Brian and Karen Pennington.
They're great film directors, so I encourage you looking them up.
They're a wonderful team.
The short films I've been in have been anywhere from about 10 to 20 minutes in range.
Working with them, a lot of them have been somewhere in the 7 to 10 minute range.
And we participate in quite a few film festivals.
And we also even show some of our movies at local conventions like Awesome Con, which hosts its own short film festival, actually.
And that's been a wonderful space to go visit.
Because recently, I feel like Starwipe has adventured out of a more modern fiction story.
Or into storytelling to some more fantastical work.
Like they shot a film that was definitely very imaginative in space, like in a capsule in space.
And we also recently did a medieval story, which was A Thousand Deaths, where I played a bard specifically in that one.
That was very fun.
Interesting.
Do you have a favorite genre to work in?
Not necessarily.
I feel like as long as there's kind of a character that's interesting to me, or that I can give some of my Steve bend to, then it's always going to be a pretty interesting project to me.
That's a great attitude.
So if you're listening, you're hiring a really easy to work with actor.
I'll do anything.
Quiet, you.
Well, that's probably an entire podcast right there.
I'm sure we could spend a lot of time getting all that stuff.
But we are here today to discuss Deadpool 3, Deadpool and Wolverine.
So I thought we might try to hold off on spoilers at least for a few minutes since we are just at the very beginning of the release window for this.
So just to catch everybody up is directed by Sean Levy, who directed Free Guy and the Atom Project.
I'm sure he's real proud of that.
Starring Ryan Reynolds, Hugh Jackman, Emma Corrin and Matthew McFadden, I believe is how you say that.
Budget was about $220 million, but you can probably more than double that to account for all the marketing.
So this was the 34th MCU film.
Believe it or not.
That's where we are.
That's incredible.
So Matt, with that confidence and that background there, how about you give us a short non-spoiler summary of the story?
That's going to be tough.
Because I mean, I guess it's somewhat of a spoiler.
There really was no story except for, let's say, so Deadpool is struggling.
He starts off, I don't think it's really a spoiler since it happens within the first five minutes.
He really wants to find purpose in his life.
So he tries to become an Avenger and the Avengers unfortunately turn him down.
So he goes into a dark place and starts working in a cinematic version of a CarMax where he sells cars with a nice wig.
So until he gets captured by the Timekeepers from Loki, if anyone's ever seen them, and there is a character called, I forgot his name already.
Mr.
Paradox.
Matthew McFadden's character.
Mr.
Paradox.
Mr.
Paradox tries to recruit him to, well, that's a little confusing.
Maybe you guys can help me.
Like, what was the reason why he was recruited?
I know why he turned around and said he didn't want the universe to die, but why was Mr.
Paradox, why did he want, he wanted Daredevil to join the Timekeepers, but as what?
So it was Deadpool, by the way, but he, Deadpool, sorry.
So he more plucked Darepool from his universe than he really was recruiting him for anything.
Okay.
Right?
Does that make sense?
So he wasn't recruiting him to be part of something?
Well, he did say something about him having like a divine purpose of some kind in that he was important, so he was pulling him out of his universe, but it seemed as though he was expediting the end of his universe, and that was where that tilted him into his whole arc of how do I save my universe?
How do I become a hero after the identity crisis that you described?
But why did Mr.
Paradox want Daredevil?
God.
Deadpool, why did he want him in the first place?
So he thought that particular dead devil has a really amazing future ahead of him.
That's why he said he's special, right?
So out of all of them, this was the Wade Wilson that they needed to save or that had a purpose in the sacred timeline.
OK, so Mr.
Paradox wanted to prune the universe quickly, but dead devil was not into that.
So he why?
Because there is a superior being, is that what they called him?
An anchor being.
There was an anchor being.
That universe, the anchor being died.
And that anchor being was Logan Wolverine, aka Hugh Jackman.
So he died.
So they need to prune this universe.
But dead devil didn't want that.
So dead devil decided to find another Wolverine in another universe, help bring him back to this universe so that he could be another one.
Was it a superior being anchor being?
So that's it.
I'm not very good.
That was good.
That was good.
So so we just have to get to the next little part.
And then I think we can get on with our discussion of the story or the whole film, which is he needs a Logan.
So he goes looking for a Logan and he finds one and it's the worst Wolverine in the multiverse and hijinks ensue.
Right.
That's pretty good.
Yeah.
All right.
So, Steve, you've been quiet over there.
Very patient.
Appreciate that.
What do you think about this movie?
I would say overall thoughts was that I had a really great time.
It was a great party movie.
I laughed a lot.
It was like super bro-mantic and a very fun, you know, going to puncture and pierce everything up with all of my swords, slishy slashy rom-com adventure.
I feel like those are all the words that I would barf up at this point to describe some of the experience.
It was full of a lot of self-referential jokes referring to the whole catalog of Marvel movies.
Speaking directly to you, dear viewer, about the MCU or the retirement slash acquisition of 20th Century Fox.
Now that all of those properties and IP, like the X-Men, are now under Marvel Disney, that brings you this Wolverine and Deadpool story that you're seeing before your eyes.
I feel like they did a really fun job of rolling that red carpet out to be like, hey, we're giving you a casual wink, which they kind of did a couple times throughout the movie.
But it was really fun to kind of be in on the joke that, yes, this was going to be the first rated R movie from Disney Marvel in the MCU.
Nice.
Yeah, and just overall, I was just going to say it was just really fun.
And also the audience effect, being able to hear so many people and the reactions on an opening weekend.
This was a great movie for that experience in particular.
The woman to my left clearly understood very many of the references within the movie.
I mean, even when Wade Wilson was going out and looking for his Logan, there are many Logans that we get to see, and a lot of them are references that are peppered throughout comics and many different media of types of Wolverine.
And she knew all of them and was just gassing up more in excitement at each one we were getting to see, which was really fun.
And I guess that range again just spoke to the audience.
Do you think this is a movie that is best seen in the theater or is it more fun to watch it at home?
You know, I'm having a tough time imagining watching it at home right now.
And maybe because so many of the jokes, the story and the twists are only going to hit me one time.
It was definitely worth seeing in theaters, that's for sure.
And to kind of be around people that I think also saw and understood so many of the things that we got to love.
Like honestly seeing actors return to roles that, I mean, these are actors that are in the trailer, so I don't even feel too spoilery here.
But Tyler Maine from the first X-Men movie returned to be Sabretooth for, you know, a bit role.
I don't remember the name of the actor.
I wish I could at the moment, but the actor who played Pyro in X-Men as well, those earlier Bryan Singer movies, he came back again too to play, you know, a pretty significant supporting role.
I was just really excited to see so many things from that 20th Century Fox franchise of all of their properties in filmmaking in the Marvel world.
A lot were peppered in, and there was a lot for you to appreciate.
Everything from those characters to ones that are significantly bigger that I don't even dare spoil on this podcast unless we're opening those floodgates.
We will, but not just yet, so good.
Good response.
All right, Matt, what's your reaction?
I would say you have to see this in the theater with a bunch of comic book nerds because that was part of the experience.
Next to me, there are two kids who anytime someone showed up, they just popped real big.
And it was just really enjoyable to be next to that.
I think the laughter, this is my first time, honestly, in a crowded, pretty crowded movie theater since before COVID.
I usually go on like Tuesday afternoons at 2, where it's just me and maybe two other lonely people.
So it was a great experience being in a theater where people would laugh at.
I think I would like this at home.
I thoroughly enjoyed it.
It was like a big box of Swedish fish, where it tasted good going down, there was no nutritional value, but you might feel a little sick afterwards, 5 to 10 minutes afterwards, when you start to really think about what you just saw.
I had a great time.
It was fun to see with you guys too.
We just saw this, to the listeners, we just saw this a couple hours ago, so everything is very, very fresh for us.
Yeah, so I can't wait to take my wife to see it.
She will not understand any of the cameos, because you have to be really into the Fox movies to really get the cameos, I think.
And you have to be a really big Ryan Reynolds fan, because he is Ryan Reynolds turned up to 10.
But luckily, I am a huge Ryan Reynolds fan, so that didn't bother me at all.
All right, so I had a few observations, and I'd love to get y'all's thoughts on those.
Sure.
First of all, I guess generally I will say that it's an enjoyable film, right?
It's well done, it's very professional, like it's not cheap or stupid or anything like that.
It's generally well thought out.
But I will say that I thought the plot was very flimsy.
I think they started with a list of everything they wanted in the movie and then they just filled in a plot to try to connect all of that.
I totally agree.
Like I said, the plot was maybe not even secondary, but like third on the list of what was, it was probably the cameos, the actors, the fight choreography.
I think they really put a lot into the fight choreography.
And then, okay, we need a script here.
I think also, like, yeah, you're right.
I think they had a list of what they wanted, like fan service, to shoot, perform people in.
And then give the reins to Ryan Reynolds to pretty much, I would assume a lot of it was kind of improv'd or at least he helped write most of it.
I think they focused a lot on the Logan character.
If there was any character that they kind of put some sort of backstory to, kind of worked a little bit on the dialogue.
I think it was Logan, and I think Hugh Jackman nailed it.
But yeah, I think those are my thoughts.
I think you hit the nail on the head.
It was, it's like, how can we get all these things in and try to make sense to make it at least watchable?
Steve, anything to add there?
I would agree that it, you know, had its moments where some things worked, but the plot was very thin.
It was not its strongest point.
And at times I would say probably even took a back seat to what was really front and center.
And, you know, when you have a character who has famously been breaking the fourth wall and speaking to you, dear viewer and listeners, that sometimes I feel like that works really well.
But this movie was almost so meta for me that some of it worked and some of it was kind of a growner at times, or just I felt like it was too much.
And I guess maybe because it was, you know, it was this in your face, Marvel owned Deadpool and Wolverine.
It also had, I would say some of its grit in terms of like sexual innuendo just turned up to like 11, which was a bit more than I was expecting.
And maybe they were just trying to be that in your face about it.
But I don't know.
I guess when you have two characters that can also just totally regenerate and we know so much about their like friction and their bromance, they're going to fight a bunch.
They're going to stab each other and slash each other a bunch.
But, you know, it almost I can look at the movie as a metaphor about the two of them fighting and constantly regenerating that like no fight between the two of them would ever be satisfying.
And I wonder if that's kind of how I had to feel at the end of the movie in a way, too, was like that's all I was ever really going to get.
Right.
The fight choreography, even though I thought was impressive, but you're right, it's like the fights didn't hold a lot of weight because it was just like they're they can't they can't hurt each other.
They stab each other a thousand times everywhere and nothing happens to them.
So it's kind of like it almost got to the sense of like what there was like the set.
They the first fight was really great.
The second fight, I kind of felt like what's the the fight in the car?
I was like, what's kind of the purpose of this fight?
It's like we just saw this like 20 minutes ago.
So, yeah, I think it like it could have used a little bit of editing and a little bit of like someone saying no somewhat through it.
But yeah, it's it's I agree 100 percent what you're saying.
And for like being slightly over two hours when you have significant fight scenes like that, which, you know, to a degree were fun.
How am I not going to like, you know, to a manner of speaking?
I mean, there's a part of me that's going to appeal to enjoying Wolverine and Deadpool fighting in a little itty bitty minivan to a song from Grease.
You know, you're the one that I want.
That was funny to me.
And so that spoke to me as like, this is awesome.
I love this.
I love that Marvel made this possible.
But the moment was undercut by just us knowing that like that was going to be never ending.
And then they both were just out of it at the end of it only to have other characters off screen take them away.
And then we had a whole nother fight later, which was awesome.
I'm going to acknowledge that all these fights are visually amazing.
And the one where Deadpool and Wolverine are fighting against a whole host that come through a portal that I don't totally want to disclose the information of.
But they fight so many enemies only to just have a character show up at the very end of it.
And the fight's just done.
It's almost like, oh, hey, no harm, no foul.
But we also spent roughly 10 minutes there, maybe.
I don't know.
And I'm thinking in my mind, like, oh, wow, that's that's that's significant script time also that could have been there.
And it wasn't.
Yeah, what I liked about the first Deadpool is there was some dramatic elements to it.
Like it was kind of like you get it.
That was a really good mixture of kind of drama, weediness and the silliness of, you know, Deadpool.
And I felt like that there was some of that in the Logan character.
And I think they tried to shoehorn a little bit in with Deadpool.
But again, I think that kind of missed it.
I think that's why the first one, in my opinion, is the best one out of all of them.
I think it was the most successful.
Yeah, I really don't think the plot needed to be that flimsy.
I think you probably could have kept a lot of what was in this film, a lot of the stuff I'm assuming they started with that they wanted to include.
And you could have connected those dots, I think, a little bit more creatively or a little bit more effectively that would have generated a better arc for our main character, but actually for both, really.
And I think they could have done more to play up the parallels in the journey and the development between this particular Wolverine and this Deadpool, which I don't know that they really did justice.
And maybe some of it is they had all these tacked on fight scenes that ran a little bit long, but I don't know if that's the case.
I just I think two or three really well chosen lines of dialogue in just the right places would have gone a long way in giving this this film more of a substantial skeleton, so to speak.
Right.
Well, as much as we've been playing in the multiverse, you know, ever since we've been post end game as well, it's just been kind of a slippery slope of seeing what spaghetti is going to stick on the wall, like what story about multiverse storytelling is going to work.
And so anchor being was a whole new concept to me that like a universe or its timeline could slowly decay over time because an anchor being was no longer in its timeline.
And so to know that the Logan that we saw die in the movie, Logan from what was that circa 2016 or circa 2017 to know that his death was the anchor being of that universe was an interesting concept.
But I felt like there wasn't much more meat after that, though.
It was just kind of like, oh, OK.
But that didn't really answer who other anchor beings were or just that opens up a whole new can of worms in this sci fi concept.
That was really a tough nugget for me to sit with on the on the drive home even after I just kept thinking about that, actually.
Or even why why Logan was the anchor person, either, because it's like, well, if he was the anchor being he died in 2016, let's say the whole Infinity War happened after that.
So it's just like, why, like when they were first mentioning it, honestly, I thought, oh, he's going to talk about Tony Stark, Iron Man.
He was the anchor being, because he was, he's essentially the anchor being of the MCU.
So, yeah, so I was I was kind of I was hoping that might have been when they threw it out.
There was Logan, I was like, yeah, that makes sense, because Logan is in the movie, but never explained why he was and in the other universes, who are these anchor beings, you know?
All right.
Well, we'll get into that more when we get into spoilers.
So let me ask you guys this.
Does this movie save the MCU?
I don't know if it saves it, but I think it kind of wipes the slate clean because they they're so they make fun of the Disney and they make fun of the the criticisms that the MCU.
Universe has had since Infinity War throughout this movie.
I feel like it's like, see, we know we're screwing up, so we're going to hopefully do better.
Now, will they?
I don't know.
But I think that was I think this movie was meant to be like an eraser almost of like we're wiping that we're wiping clean.
We got all these things in.
We just threw everything at the wall.
And now we're going to start over.
All right, Steve, what do you think?
Does this movie save the MCU?
I don't know that it totally saves it.
And in some ways, I think it could have teed itself up to either end this multiverse saga or be something that Deadpool as this character who has broken the fourth wall, who had so many versions of himself in the void that we came to know from Loki in that world as well.
I don't know.
It was kind of a tough nugget for me to sit with in the end because it didn't really reset anything.
It didn't point a direction.
It didn't really even let me know that these two characters might be back again or that these actors would be back again as these characters.
I kind of feel like this might have been a one and done.
And I don't know that it saved it.
In fact, it may have even made some more of this multiverse saga of storytelling just a little bit more messy to me.
So I don't know.
I can only be left to wonder at this point after all of these multiverse movies that have not felt that satisfying since a larger arc that built up to Infinity War and Endgame.
I'm just wondering, where's Marvel really going?
Yeah, it seems like because I think it's a clean slate type of deal because the next movie is the new Captain America Brave World and I can't see any of this going into that movie.
I don't know if you can.
No, not at all.
There is nothing remotely, so I feel like they want to almost start from scratch with this new Brave World movie.
Or it could be the same old, who knows?
That's what I'm saying.
I think you're right about this might be a one off, but I also think money speaks.
If this movie makes a billion dollars, which I think it will.
And I know Hugh Jackman and Ryan Reynolds look like they're having the time of their lives playing these characters.
I think they are game to do this more.
But you're right.
I don't know where this is going to go from this movie.
This too is nothing.
Even the end credits scene doesn't show anything.
OK, so I'm hearing maybe and kind of were the responses.
Is that what I'm getting?
It's like, I don't know.
Well, and you guys, you focused on the story.
Does this save the MCU in terms of setting the story on a better path?
And the answer there, the consensus seems to be no.
And you also referenced financially.
Does this get the MCU back on track?
And the answer is maybe.
But I guess it depends is what you're saying.
Although to that, I will say, and we'll talk about this more when we talk about the future of the MCU later.
But in my mind, the MCU has always been about whatever movies or projects came out before, right?
So how well a movie does is not really as much about that movie as the previous one to two movies or even Disney plus shows.
So my answer to the question of whether or not this saves the MCU is based more on interest.
And I think the answer is yes, but only temporarily, because I think it does increase interest in the MCU.
I think this turns a lot of heads.
This gets a lot of people wondering what's going to be in it.
We're going to talk about all those spoilers in just a minute.
But I think it makes them curious and it increases engagement.
And anything that does that has the potential to save the MCU.
Where does that go?
What are they going to do with that?
Well, they're going into what, Agatha?
Is that the next MCU project?
Is that a good idea?
Right.
And then it goes from Agatha to February next year to Falcon America.
Right.
So like you said, I don't know that if we're going to use the term I'm using here, the interest generated by Deadpool 3 is going to carry them through summer next year.
Right.
I just I don't know that that's true.
I don't want to say it definitely isn't.
I'm not seeing the runway there to take off again.
But this in my mind and just purely in terms of generating interest and eyeballs and discussions and podcast episodes like this one, it does save the MCU.
It potentially does.
I'll say that I usually have a Marvel project or property that's within the year or the two year that generally is something I'm pretty excited about or looking forward to.
And this was one that I was looking forward to for a while.
I do think it delivered because I walked away having such a good time and honestly feeling a kinship and brotherhood with you.
And after seeing it and it being such a bromantic journey, it just felt like a good movie to see with your buds and your friends.
That's definitely the biggest takeaway I got from it.
But I don't know.
I still struggle to maybe see where it takes the MCU from here because it didn't point the overall universe anywhere, which I don't know that a lot of the properties have.
At least not recently.
I'm going to jump in there.
I don't know that that's required.
I don't think in order to be a good MCU project, like a movie or streaming show or whatever, I don't know that it needs to fix the overall crossover arc of whatever phase we're in.
I don't know that that's required.
I think this movie, or Ryan Reynolds specifically, sort of suggested that or kind of built it, or maybe it's all just the alternate universe kind of stuff, the multiverse stuff.
Maybe that's what gave us that expectation.
It didn't occur to me that this movie would reset everything, and I don't think it's needed.
But you're right to point out that it does not course correct the larger crossover story for these phases.
I just don't really know exactly where it's going.
But I will say, to speak in a higher note in particular, I am really excited about them getting the Fantastic Four and X-Men back in general.
I mean, I've been hyped about Marvel just in general getting their own properties back since circa 1990s when they went bankrupt or were close to it, and they sold those properties to these movie companies.
That's what led to all of these movies even being made by these studios for so long.
That's where maybe some viewers know about that history, maybe some don't, but it is kind of refreshing now to know that Marvel has gotten so much of that back.
I mean, Sony is going to keep their grubby mitts on Spider-Man, and why wouldn't they?
I mean, that's a cash cow right there.
But I am excited about those properties and their future in general.
And The Fantastic Four already has a cast, and I'm a big Pedro Pascal fan, so I'm going to just dump on that right now by saying that is shamelessly going to be a movie that I'm going to be super excited to see.
So yeah, there was at least that in the near future.
But I also know that one's taking place at a specific moment in time, so it's going to be in the 60s and be sort of a period piece in the Marvel world, which that also sounds pretty interesting to me and maybe even refreshing after all of this kind of hodgepodge stew of multiverse lately.
All right.
So anything else before we jump into spoilers and ruin this film?
No?
Okay.
So if you're listening and you have not seen Deadpool 3, Wolverine and Logan or what's it called?
Deadpool and Logan?
Is that?
No.
Deadpool and Wolverine.
Daredevil and Logan.
Daredevil and Wolverine.
Then check out right now because we are going to spoil it.
And I'm just going to say, normally I am a fan of being spoiled.
I like it.
I like to know sometimes because movies aren't always that great.
And if I know some of the cool story stuff, then I can really focus on the story, the concept and enjoy that.
And I'm not sitting there distracted trying to figure out what's going to happen or what the concept is or what all the details behind the scenes were or whatever.
So I don't mind being spoiled.
But for this film, I'm going to say don't be spoiled.
I don't think it's really that great of a movie if you're spoiled.
I think the plot is not amazing.
So if you take away the stuff that they crammed a plot in to connect, if you know that and that doesn't excite you, then there's really not as much here.
I mean, it's just a theory.
I could be wrong.
Maybe you enjoy it more if you go in and you know what to look forward to and it gets you through some of the weird plot twists.
I don't know.
Do you guys have an opinion on that?
Is it better to be spoiled or unspoiled with this one?
I would say unspoiled by far.
I'd say probably unspoiled.
I mean, the way that I would see and maybe compare this to something like the first time you see a horror movie, if you know where all the jump scares are, then it doesn't really affect you or phase you.
And there's at least a lot of stuff that is what I'm going to call popcorn fan service that definitely pops up in this movie.
And there's a lot of that.
And if you're spoiled to it, then maybe you love that.
But to speak to what you said, Jason, it's kind of a paper thin plot in particular.
The narrative was definitely one of its weakest points.
But also, dear listeners, if you don't want to be spoiled, you know, please bugger out now and go listen to the soundtrack, because the soundtrack's great.
All right.
Soundtrack is great.
So we are officially spoiling this film.
Everybody dies at the end, right?
Is that where we should start?
There's a lot of character death.
I'll say that for sure.
Sure.
No, not at all.
OK, so we don't need to hit every single spoiler.
Do you guys want to start with how about your favorite cameo, your favorite character you didn't expect to see?
Anybody got an idea there?
Well, I'll go my favorite.
My favorite was the Chris Evans.
Ah, yes.
Not so much Chris Evans being in it, Set it up.
but this switch out, switcheroo.
What happened?
So what happens is they're put into this like, I don't know what that land is called.
Yeah, so Logan and Deadpool are zapped into the void by the TVA.
So that's from Loki, seasons one and two.
And after they arrive, they I think they fight, right?
There's a fight, one of their fights and one of their fight scenes.
And then somebody says, hey, hey, come on.
If we fight with each other, the bad guys win.
And then Deadpool goes bananas because it is Chris Evans, right?
Right.
So he's like he jumps out off a building.
He like does the superhero landing.
And then he takes off the hood and you see him.
And everyone's meant to believe that it's Captain America.
And then out of nowhere, he goes flame on and he goes flames up.
So he is Johnny Storm from from the original Fantastic Four.
And I thought that was such a clever.
I thought that was such a clever twist there.
And that was probably one of the biggest first cameos too.
So, yeah, I absolutely loved it.
I loved seeing him as that character again because I didn't wasn't particularly fond of those first two movies, but I loved him as Johnny Storm.
I thought he was.
That's his name, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Johnny Storm.
Chris Evans as Johnny Storm.
So he I think he plays that character, I would say, better than he plays Captain America.
So it was what I know.
Sacrilegious.
So I was really, really excited to see him play that character.
That was definitely a fun one.
But if you're going to mention Chris Evans playing Johnny Storm, then you've got to mention what happens to him, right?
Oh, just just that he gets absolutely destroyed and basically disintegrated by Cassandra Nova.
His skin gets completely sucked away from him and he falls into just a little putrid puddle of blood and sinew and bones.
It was actually really gross.
But, you know, Deadpool was a huge part of just talking shit toward Cassandra Nova, which resulted in those actions.
And then we got to see him bear the guilt of making that a joke for the rest of the movie.
That's right.
And also, just as a side note, what did you think about Pyro's interaction with Johnny Storm there, the Human Torch?
I liked that because I feel like there's always been some pair ups or fights and also some that have been in comics over time that have always been kind of a, hey, I wonder what would happen if those two characters fought and we've never really gotten a Pyro and Human Torch fight.
And I kind of liked the interaction of those two, the way that it disabled Johnny and then set them up for, you know, their characters capture.
Well, you know, I think that points to, gosh, I don't want to say an issue with the film, just a personal little bone to pick that I have with this movie.
And I know it's because I'm a big fat nerd, right?
So I don't expect anyone else to really feel this way.
But I felt like some of the characters that they brought in, you know, the cameos, I thought some of them were treated with respect and some of them weren't.
And it was Johnny Storm in particular was played for laughs.
So I would have been fine if the interaction with Pyro was more like, I don't want to say evenly balanced.
But, you know, Johnny Storm generates flame from himself.
He's not just like briefly lit on fire and then Pyro can take that fire from him.
But that's how they presented it.
And it was entirely so they could play it for laughs.
So I don't know.
I mean, that bugs me a little.
Definitely.
Because I know if we're digging into the comic book aspects of it, I mean, Johnny Storm can go supernova.
Right.
Like he could easily kill Pyro.
In fact, if we were to really see that pair in a real fight, there's no question to me.
Johnny Storm would destroy Pyro, period.
And I mean, regardless of who would ultimately win, it would definitely be a better fight, at least I would think, or one sided the other way.
But I don't know.
I really like Chris Evans.
I think he seems like a really kind of nice guy.
I mean, maybe he's a sociopath.
I have no idea.
But he seems like a nice enough guy who's willing to kind of go along with whatever.
And he's done some good work in comic book movies.
There aren't a lot of actors who put as much time in and effort as he has.
And, you know, he was played entirely as a joke.
You know, like he was sort of cowardly and sort of weirdly arrogant at times and very weak.
And, you know, just that's fine, I guess.
But it was played for laughs and I didn't think it was that funny.
So I was a little disappointed with that one.
But I get that it's really cool to see Johnny Storm.
A lot of those cameos in particular were pretty quick, like getting to see a character even for a brief moment, like Pyro versus Johnny Storm or Wolverine versus Sabretooth again.
A lot of those fights or at least those matchups in particular, it was like a one hit, one and done type of fight for a lot of them.
And I'm not sure why some of them were, I guess, you know, like you said, for laughs where the Sabretooth kill was definitely just like, Wolverine is a badass, I guess.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I do like that they presented both Deadpool and Wolverine as being, you know, healers.
You know, they have that rapid healing ability.
And so they're just constantly sticking each other with swords and knives and shooting each other.
But I did like that other characters are not somehow like able to avoid that just because they don't really have that same healing ability.
They doesn't mean they aren't going to get stabbed and have their head taken off.
But to have Tyler Maine go down so quickly, like I get it.
They set it up.
That's the joke that it ended so quickly.
So for those of you who haven't seen it, Tyler Maine played Sabretooth in the original X-Men movie.
I don't think he was in any of the sequels.
He was the lead driver.
Right.
So he was the big.
Well, everyone was expecting Wolverine to fight Sabretooth because of their history from the comics, but they never really get into it.
And so I guess in this movie, they thought it'd be fun to play off of that.
But when you finally do get that fight, it's over in like two seconds.
Wolverine just beheads him and it's done.
Is it even two seconds?
I don't know.
I doubt it.
You know, that didn't upset me as much, but again, played for laughs.
So yeah, it's fine.
Well, what is a cameo that worked for you?
I really loved Daphne Keene.
I think she's great.
I'm a huge fan of hers, even though I've hardly seen her in anything.
She was recently in the Acolyte series.
I thought she was good in that, but underutilized.
I wasn't sure.
I was honestly, I was worried that the actress, now that she's older, a lot of child actors are not as good when they get older.
Like they're just not as natural in front of the camera.
But I thought she did a great job.
She actually brought some gravitas to one emotional scene.
There was really only a couple genuine moments in the movie, I would say.
Was that fair to say?
Maybe like three at the most that really felt tough, grounded.
They all involved Hugh Jackman.
Two and a half.
Yeah.
And so she carried 50% of one of them.
And it's just great to see she still got it.
You know, I'm hoping for more from her.
So that was a high point for me.
What about you, Steve?
Any favorites?
I was going to touch on that, too, because she's definitely a character that I'd like to see come back.
And I feel like seeing her again was very refreshing.
It was reminiscent of her older performance, too, at this point.
Like to see some of that rage that she still got and like that physicality that she takes into her fight choreography in particular, I definitely noticed was still like a really good match.
So I hope she comes back.
I hope that's another reason why we got to see her.
But like you said, maybe even underutilized.
She carried some of the biggest emotional gravity of the movie.
I think going into some other ones, the biggest one that maybe popcorn surprised me was Wesley Snipes returning as Blade.
That was so exciting to me because, yeah, as far as I knew he was a retired actor, number one, and then number two, that was another character from that time period that really started the comic book craze.
You know, he was right there on the ground floor when that first Bryan Singer X-Men movie had come out.
But, you know, I guess everybody has kind of forgotten over the years that Blade is a Marvel property and a very cool one at that.
And maybe we'll get another one.
But Wesley Snipes made a joke to us, the audience, that there is only one Blade, and maybe there still will be.
We don't know if Mahershala Ali and the movie that he is supposed to helm as that character will actually happen.
I don't know.
Yeah, all really good points.
I don't know if you guys, did you see Blade 2?
Do you remember Blade 2?
Absolutely, and Blade 3 had Ryan Reynolds in it.
It did, and they referenced that briefly when he's meeting them.
Yeah, Blade 2 was directed by Guillermo del Toro.
So if you haven't seen that, go back and watch that one.
That is a solid film.
It really put him on a lot of people's radar back then.
So great movie, and it was good to see Blade.
Do you feel like Wesley Snipes played Blade the same?
Did he feel like the same Blade to you all these years later or not?
I would say he stuck the landing enough with what material was there for me to feel it being reminiscent.
But I haven't seen those movies in a minute to actually make that comparison.
But did I feel it?
Do I feel it tonight?
Yes, I do.
Yeah, I was going to say I think him and another cameo, Jennifer Gardner as Electra shows up.
I think especially in their fighting, like they're both like I don't I think Jennifer Gardner is close to 50.
And I think Wesley Snipes might be his mid 60s.
And they both really like it.
They did have their kind of like fight styles still from the same.
I felt like there is like there's this one blade move that he did that I was like, that's him as blade.
I think that was really impressive because I go back to even though I love Ghostbusters.
Where is this going?
Well, I'm saying I love Ghostbusters.
I love the newer ones.
But like there's something Bill Murray and Dan Ackroyd just don't really have it anymore.
The first, you know, they just when they show up, it's like there's something off.
It's like it's them, but it's something off.
I did not see that in either of these two cameos.
It almost felt like they have been playing these characters for the past 20 years.
Well, and let's touch on the other cameo that since we're talking about the characters that were in that part, or as act two of the movie, we saw Daphne Keene as Laura X-23.
We got Jennifer Garner as Electro Nachos.
We got Wesley Snipes as Blade.
And then Wawa Wee Wow.
We got Channing Tatum as Gambit, which was mind blowing to me.
And I do want to hear both of your thoughts on that character in particular.
He was supposed to have his own movie, is that right?
That's right.
As that character.
He was even pitching it himself.
I think he was going to produce it, if I remember right.
Now, did that just fall through?
Yeah, it did.
It sort of fell through the cracks there with all the changes that were happening.
And I felt like that was a particularly appropriate cameo to have, even though he never really did the film, because it does in a lot of ways mirror Ryan Reynolds' efforts to get Deadpool going.
And if Ryan Reynolds or whoever hadn't leaked the script and then some of the early footage from the movie, Deadpool would have done the same.
It would have fallen through the cracks exactly the way Gambit did and been lost forever.
So I think Channing Tatum coming in, to me, it sort of felt like an acknowledgement of an actor's journey to take a character they love and push it into existence, push their version of it into existence.
And I thought he did a good job.
I liked the accent.
I thought it was funny.
But I also could see a movie like that.
Yes, it's so easy to make fun of it, but I think you could, as an audience member, sort of sink into it, get used to that accent, or at least maybe if it was slightly toned down here and there.
Turned down, yeah.
Just a bit.
He might have turned it up for laughs, but I could see that.
Now, I think the costume, they put him in a very cartoon-accurate costume.
Is it comic-accurate?
Which would you say, both?
I'd say a little bit of both, but I would definitely say like 90s, Jim Lee, that animated series accurate in particular, that brown trencher, the pinkish-purple chest plate, the blue, you know, almost gauntlet style looking legs.
Yeah.
Right off the page, right.
Which, you know, I think they did that as part of the joke, as part of having fun with it.
I don't think that's what he would have worn, like the headpiece and everything.
I don't think he would have done that in his own movie.
So, you know, there's a part of me that now wishes we had gotten that movie years and years ago, and then there's another much smarter part of me that knows it wouldn't have been good.
So this was fun.
Yeah, I think this was the I think this was the perfect use for him as that character was in this movie.
I couldn't see him.
I couldn't see him leading a movie.
Well, at least the way he played this character this time, it was just so character ish.
And his accent was just so was was good.
And I laughed at it, but it was so outlandish.
You're right, he would have had to have toned it down.
And I think the movie, I don't know if it would have been as successful if he was toned down that way, because he really matched the comic book character probably better than anyone that I've seen in any of the movies.
It's an interesting coincidence, and I assume it has to be a coincidence.
But did you guys watch the X-Men 97 cartoon on Disney?
Oh, yeah.
So, hey, you're in the spoilers section.
If you get spoiled, you know, don't be surprised.
So, spoiling that, Gambit dies in the cartoon.
He died, like, what was it, a month ago?
A month and a half, something like that.
And then here is Channing Tatum playing almost exactly the same character alive.
Right?
Like, what are the odds?
Do you think they plan that?
That just seems impossible to plan.
I would think that's impossible to plan, and especially based on animation being a project that's years and years in the making.
But then also, you know, Disney Marvel only just acquired that 20th Century Fox property to get all of this stuff.
Actually, fairly recently, I think it happened just right around 2020.
So they've only had so much time to kind of plan this stuff, too.
And I think to even book and probably get Channing Tatum for as much as that was, that seemed like that was probably a month of shooting, at least, based on just the couple locations.
So I was very surprised by that.
But I would also say, I don't think they planned that, but boy howdy, am I glad to be alive in this timeline where we get this much gambit inside of two months.
Look, I got to think if their marketing team is paying attention and knows the fans at all, they are going to leak that cameo.
It's going to be in commercials.
It's going to be all over the web now that the movie's out.
If you haven't seen the movie and you're listening to this, you're going to see it.
I'm predicting even before you can get in, maybe next weekend or the weekend after, because there was so much goodwill coming.
One of the highest audience score ratings on Rotten Tomato is X-Men 97.
And the Death of Gambit was done very well.
His stock is higher than it's ever been, is my point.
And he's in this movie for what, 15, 20 minutes?
Something like that.
He's a big part of act two.
So you gotta think they're just excited about that.
They gotta feature this.
It's great for Channing Tatum.
It's great for the character Gambit and the X-Men that they're trying to reboot.
It's great for this film, obviously.
So I'm assuming that will be front and center at some point soon.
I'm betting the next round of commercials will have a minute.
Well, while we're talking about X-Men 97, I thought that was one of the best ensemble Marvel properties that I've seen in a long time.
I also kind of liked that Wolverine took a back seat in that storytelling because he took so much of the front seat in the 90s cartoon back when we were youngins.
And that was very refreshing.
And it gives me some high hope for the X-Men in the future because I'm really excited about Marvel having the X-Men.
And I'm really pumped to see what they do with them in their cinematic universe now.
All right.
So back to another down note.
Cassandra Nova, weird choice for a villain.
Anyone else feel that way?
Very weird choice.
And especially one that has no context outside of this movie to us because all of the exposition to her, any of it, we just get in this movie.
But because it's all so paper thin and so weird, it just feels forced.
And so to be like, oh, I guess cool.
We've got Charles Xavier's twin sister that he had no idea existed who also just happens to be stuck in the void that is such a niche thing in the multiverse now at this point.
It was kind of a lot to unpack to have them be the big bad in the end.
And I would say that Mr.
Paradox and her were probably the bads.
So yeah, it's two bad guys in this film.
But Cassandra Nova was such a, I don't want to say confusing, complicated character, right?
So Astonishing X-Men introduced this character.
The character was sidelined as being too weird, right?
So not a character a lot of people who read comics really know about.
In this particular version, she was presumably pruned from her timeline before she was born.
So she doesn't even have the kind of evil backstory that the one from the comics have, if I understood that correctly.
And this version likes being in the void.
She likes having this crappy little fortress with like 20 followers and her clean shaven head and white clothes and stuff.
And that's her world.
It's a good choice, Jason.
Let's see how it works out for her.
Just very strange.
And then in the film, she has that sort of Mr.
Burns from The Simpsons change of heart a couple times, you know?
Like, again, very weird.
Like, she's like, you know what?
You guys kind of beat me.
And I respect that.
So and I'm kind of mad.
It's the person I had to deal with.
So I'll help you guys escape.
And then she's like, oh, you know, actually, now that I'm at it, why don't I just kill everybody again?
Right.
Very weird.
And why in the world would all those Deadpools side with her and then change their minds at the last minute?
Because of Peter?
Yeah, because they're every at Peter's.
OK, so every other Deadpool, what are they all just like paid?
Did she pay them off somehow?
And they're just working for money or whatever goes for cash in the void?
Or did she mind control them and Peter made it wear off?
Like, it doesn't make any sense.
It doesn't really add up.
I guess in my mind's eye, I think of the Deadpool core in this movie as like a Mad Max-esque faction in this dystopian void that all seem to work for Cassandra Nova.
Why?
I have no idea why.
And that's as much as I was like, OK, I guess.
Right.
Well, she's one of the main characters.
And to your point, which is really what all this is about, we don't get enough from her.
We don't understand her.
She's not we don't.
In moments you can almost have empathy for her.
And then, like I said, she has another change of heart and another change.
It's just very weird.
Sometimes she seems like she's a sadist.
And then other times, not so much.
Like, I don't know.
Like, it was just very weird, obscure choice for a villain, which I don't on principle have a problem with.
And then the execution was weird.
It's sort of thin as well.
So I don't know.
But Matt, I'm curious your take on Cassandra Nova, because I feel as though, and I don't want to speak for you, but I imagine that's a character that you probably didn't know about before this movie.
So I wonder, like, what was your take on that character in this movie?
Yeah, I never heard of her at all.
And I agree with you.
The motivation was nowhere to be found.
Like, why she was how she was.
I guess she was I thought maybe she was a little bit upset that she was in the void and that she didn't she she wasn't like she had some sort of jealousy of Charles Xavier, but that didn't really come to fruition.
She didn't technically know him.
She didn't exactly.
She didn't even know him.
I can only see it as an actress.
Like I thought she was very good.
Emma Corrin was good.
Yeah, Emma Corrin was really good.
I thought the creepiness of her putting her hand through their head was something it's going to be in my nightmares.
So I thought that was visually kind of interesting.
But also there just wasn't enough of her either.
There was one scene when they first met, then you didn't see her to the very end.
And then then then there's this like flip flop that came out nowhere.
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
I thought the villain was was pretty much.
And I also thought, what's his name?
Why do you keep on?
I forget his name.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Paradox, Mr.
Mr.
Paradox.
Mr.
Paradox.
I felt like his motivation wasn't even that great either.
No, I felt like both their both of their the villains didn't really work well.
Mr.
Paradox works a little bit better if you put in the, you know, 50 hours to watch two seasons of Loki.
And you really thought about the fact that it's a bureaucracy.
Right.
So they're all part of this big TVA bureaucracy.
And for however many millions of years that they've been working there out of time, the whole point in a bureaucracy is like you either accept where you are or you try to advance.
Right.
That's right.
That's how bureaucracies generally are portrayed anyway.
And so he's one of those who wants to advance and get a little more power, you know, in his little area on his desk.
He wants a bigger desk, a bigger office.
Right.
So I guess that's enough to explain what he's doing.
He's kind of heartless about it.
And, you know, the TVA hasn't completely changed just because a few people at the top have changed or whatever, I guess.
But without watching Loki in really both seasons, I don't think there's any kind of motivation for this character.
So that's unusual, maybe a little sloppy.
I would say that the entire concept of the TVA is actually not introduced well in this property because it's so forced on you so quick.
You can only assume that they're just these people out of time in this pocket world.
But yeah, if you haven't watched any Loki at all, I would dare say that most people are just going to be like, I guess these are the time police or something like that.
You know?
And they're presented as stormtroopers right up the front, you know, opening sequence.
So I can't imagine an audience member who's not familiar with Loki understanding at the end when they turn out to be good or sort of good or like helping.
You know, that's got to be really confusing.
I think they assume that the audience would come in thinking of the TVA as good guys and they had to kind of explain that it's like this group is not good.
But you already know that the group or the larger group, the head of it are good.
And I don't think that that's something you can really assume.
But whatever, it's fine.
I mean, I knew.
So it didn't really bother me that much.
Yeah.
OK, rapid fire.
Let's hit a few other things.
Personal favorite age of Apocalypse, Logan.
So for those of you who are spoiling and haven't seen it, there's a scene where Wade goes looking for a replacement.
Logan for his universe because his Logan from his universe, I guess he's in the Fox universe.
So it was the Logan from the Wolverine movies that's dead.
He needs a replacement.
We get some funny cameos there.
One and some of them are serious.
And one is a very, I think, comic accurate age of Apocalypse.
Logan, he's missing, I think his left hand.
He's got that adamantium kind of stump there, which if you've read the comics, I'm spoiling everything today.
There's still claws in there.
He just doesn't pop them out.
I guess they can't really be adamantium.
The stump must be made of something else.
Anyway, he's got that clubby stump and he hits Deadpool with it, which is great.
We go back to him, I think, briefly a couple of times.
I wouldn't mind more of that.
That age of Apocalypse in the comics was fabulous.
Honestly, I think Hugh really pulled off that look.
And that long hair wig that he wore from that 90s storytelling from Age of Apocalypse was like, no kidding, comic book accurate, like you said.
I would definitely watch more of that.
And while we're talking about those cameos, I love that we got to see him in the suit, period.
And while this suit was probably more of an astonishing X-Men suit, the one that he wears in this movie mostly, I kind of like it, but I'm very partial to that traditional one that's in the actual animated series.
But also, I really love the brown and gold-yellow costume, where Wolverine is a part of the Yashida clan.
And I was glad that we got to see that costume.
He pops his claws and we got to see that little hint of his very first appearance, which was in Incredible Hulk fighting against Incredible Hulk.
And we got to see that for a very brief moment.
And I think maybe, just maybe, and this might be just my fan wishful thinking here, I swear that Deadpool said something to Hulk.
Hulk grabbed him, threw him, and I think he threw him into like a side of a tree in the same way that Wolverine died in the movie Logan, where like it was just like punctured in the same way.
And I thought, oh, that's funny.
I was like Deadpool is right there dying the same way or dying, quote unquote.
Right.
But anyway.
Yeah.
So we got a flash of Logan's.
Anybody else have a favorite Logan?
I like the old man Logan on the porch with the shotgun.
I thought that was really I thought I think that might have been my favorite one.
Nice.
And of course, we can spoil it.
Henry Cavill played Cavalry.
I kind of like that one, too.
I thought that was like that was like when well, a better version of when Nicolas Cage showed up as the CGI Superman in the Flash movie.
Oh, yeah.
So I thought it was like these rumors of having Henry Cavill being a.
I think I think him or Daniel Radcliffe.
I think he was wasn't he like been rumored to be young?
Yeah, a lot of people thought he was going to be the patch Wolverine.
We get the patch Wolverine and the white tux gambling.
A lot of people thought that.
Daniel Radcliffe.
But it was not.
It was just you Jackman with a patch.
But yeah, the Henry Cavill one.
That was a pretty clever cameo.
Yeah, no kidding.
And the way that he punched with his claws out, you know, Deadpool looked very reminiscent of his Superman.
And also the throwaway line that was very much to you.
We'll treat you better than the assholes down the street.
Yeah.
And there was a lot of that commentary throughout this whole movie.
It was just about the overall production studios and their their downs and ups across this last 25 years.
OK, so moving on, they never tell us or show us exactly how this Logan failed his universe, right?
So the implication is like all the heroes are dead or in this universe.
It's just the mutants, maybe.
I'm not really sure, but they're dead and we just get a line in Act 3.
No flashback.
You don't get to see it.
It's not the Wolverine from the Old Man Logan comics is not that story.
Personally, my guess after seeing the movie was this is the Logan from X2.
So the X-Men sequel, there's a scene where I think Striker and his like hit squad come to the mansion and Wolverine is there along with a lot of the other X-Men.
And they managed to kind of fight them to I think a standstill.
A lot of the kids escape if I understand correctly or remember correctly.
So in this one, it sounds like it's that story exactly, except Logan had gone out to the bar drinking and then he comes back.
And I guess a lot of the mutants had been killed or somehow his involvement showing up later resulted in a lot of people getting killed.
He kills the humans.
Maybe he goes berserk.
That's really all we know, right?
Did I miss anything?
I don't think so.
It stayed pretty vague, I think, for us to fill in some of our own blanks.
And I liked your take on it being like a specific instance that we know from a time before where Logan was there, was being asked to be there while other events were going on.
Because in X2, most of the X-Men left.
They were really kind of belaboring Logan with the task of babysitting the kids.
And I think some of them even still got captured and were taken to Alkali Lake with him and the rest of the X-Men to then still go on to save.
But it sounds like in some alternate world, all of that could have gone sideways.
And at most, I would say I was still leaning into a very Old Man Logan-esque story.
I assumed that the villains in some way that they finally agreed to work in union with one another rose up.
And it was during this time that there was probably a fever pitch of fear and that people and humans were hunting down mutants like the Super Mutant Registration Act and all of that stuff.
So I don't know.
I wonder if it was just one big meshing of all of that in one way.
But yeah, it left me wondering a lot.
I really wanted to know so much more about this Logan because it wasn't really our Logan.
Right.
And they set it up in the trailer as a question and they don't answer that question.
So a lot of people will just forget, right?
They don't.
OK, what exactly happens doesn't matter, right?
Because there's a lot of cool stuff in this film.
But I think some people are going to be annoyed by that because it really isn't ever answered.
So using your own imagination feels a little bit unfulfilling given that it's such a critical part of this character and this character's arc.
Interesting choice.
I don't know why they made it.
Maybe it was for time.
Maybe they had some ideas and filmed them even and cut it.
I don't know.
Maybe we'll find out later.
Maybe a bonus.
So speaking of endings, this film had a very happy ending.
It did.
Right.
So it started off with or the very end began with the Deadpool and Wolverine having shawarma and sort of bonding it one last time over victory.
And then Logan's going to hit the road.
You know, he's going to just wander off like he always does.
And he says, we're never going to see him again.
And then Wade stands up and says, hold on.
And next we see he and Laura are now part of Wade Wilson's makeshift family.
He's there with all the characters from the beginning are together and they're sharing a meal.
And this Logan has found peace and Laura's got her, I guess, sort of dad back and Wade's got his best friend.
And then Logan encourages Wade to turn over to Vanessa, who dumped him between Deadpool 2 and Deadpool 3.
And Deadpool Wade just says, you know, I did it all for you.
And she's like, you know what?
It's back on.
I'm in love with you again.
Let's all be together.
The end.
Right.
So what do you guys think of this happy ending?
Oh, dead silence.
I mean, I liked it.
I like a happy ending.
I it's most of these movies kind of don't have the nice wrapped up in a little tiny little bow type of ending.
And that's why I think this was like a movie that like what Steve said earlier, that I think this might be just a standalone where it is.
It's like we don't have any questions lingering of what what's happening to these characters.
And I think it's also it's I think the other I think Electra and Channing Tatum and Blade.
I think they're all going to be I think they're all in this world now, the prime world, because at the end he says, I have some friends who helped me out.
And I think even though they weren't in that last scene, I feel like they were brought into this world.
So that might be something.
I mean, unless I'm reading that incorrectly, I don't know if you guys thought the same thing.
Yeah, I don't.
It wasn't clear whether they went back to their worlds or they were brought.
I don't really know.
Did you pick up on that, Steve?
I didn't really know.
I didn't really know either.
I know that he did insinuate that bit about his friends that helped and that he'd like to bring them here.
But I didn't it didn't seem like we had much conclusion there.
We also didn't see them at the little house party either.
So that was kind of a I wonder.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I assumed that they were brought into this world mainly because X-23 she was brought in.
And I assumed all of them followed.
But I guess X-23 was part of this world, wasn't it?
Yeah, I guess.
Right.
Because Logan took place in the same universe.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So she belonged there.
But anyway, I did like the happy ending.
I was up and for it.
All right.
I think it sealed the deal or tied the bow for me to be convinced that this was probably a one-and-done.
The idea of a Deadpool and Wolverine movie, all these cameos, maybe just this multi-service, fan-service package to say, hey, this is fun.
We know what we're doing.
We're trying to get back into a fun way of making some fun movies for y'all.
And I'm curious what, again, is going to be the future of the X-Men and Fantastic Four.
You know, to have Johnny Storm in here, just a little taste of Fantastic Four energy and then having Wolverine and so much X-Men references, I am really excited to see what's ahead.
So I feel like that's what the ending did for me or maybe even what the movie did.
But yeah, it was a very forced and kind of abrupt, just quick, happy ending, you know, and everyone's happily ever after right now.
And there was no Easter egg or anything that pointed me any new direction.
So I still felt good just seeing it.
Well, I think a lot of this film is about the actors themselves.
And then there's a layer that happens that we sort of check in and out of.
That's about the Deadpool films.
And then there's another layer that's really about the MCU as a whole.
And to me, this happy ending was very much about the actors.
You know, it wasn't really about even really the Deadpool movies as much because it didn't fit with those particularly well.
It's a little bit odd, but it didn't bother me because I think we were just supposed to think, hey, you know, Hugh Jackman's been doing this for a long time.
And this was fun for him.
It was, you know, he's ending on a happy note with some people.
They had a good time.
Here they are.
Like, it's sort of a, you know, almost like the family are the people making the movie.
And then we get this post credit montage of clips from the Fox Universe just sort of as a goodbye.
And so I did feel like that happy ending was meant that sort of reinforced the idea that it was meant to be the end of the era of other, you know, Fox Marvel products.
So I think they were just trying to kind of cap it all on a positive note for the actors and for the people involved.
Not so much for Deadpool because I imagine we will get more Deadpool and it won't really springboard off of this or continue any of this and not for the MCU as a whole.
Obviously, I just don't think what we saw is really going to be relevant again for anything, really.
But I think that's kind of fine because on that level of the actors involved, which Deadpool as a property is very much about Ryan Reynolds, you know, the actor.
And so, you know, that works.
It works for me.
He's got his friends there and they had a good time.
He and Hugh Jackman had fun.
Now, do you think this ruins Logan for you at all?
Like the ending of Logan?
It does make Logan feel a little silly at times.
Yeah, I love that movie.
And I don't know next time I watch it, if I'm going to be thinking about the multiple scenes in this film that really I mean, I thought they were going to treat that movie with a little bit more respect, but they made it at the point right up front not to do that.
And with those kinds of visuals in your head, are you going to be able to enjoy the final scenes in Logan as much?
Right.
So I understand that they said they weren't going to touch it, but they did.
And I to me, I think that was a little bit of a mistake.
But again, I don't know that the actors really care all that much.
So now I don't think so.
I think like you said, Matt, Hugh and Ryan looked like they were having the time of their lives making this.
I'm sure if there were other characters like these two, like these prototypes in another fictional, who knows, Apple TV series or just some other TV show or something, I'm sure these two would love to keep working with each other.
That's something I know for certain seeing this movie.
But I think speaking to what you said, Jason, this was really a love letter to the two of them and them working on these projects for so long.
And they've both been not only working on them, but also being executive producers on a lot of these projects.
Yeah.
OK, so back to this concept of an anchor being.
Do you guys think we're ever going to hear that again in these Marvel movies?
Ah, maybe if they do another Loki season.
But other than that, I don't think so, no.
I don't think so.
I think at most the concept of an anchor being to me in the future, I don't know, it seems silly, but I think the only way I could see them bringing it back is if it was something like Jean Grey and the Phoenix Force or something like that.
But that would be...
I don't even know if that's wishful thinking on my part.
That's just the only thing I can think of that if I was like, what would be that in Marvel Universe really?
But I don't know.
I kind of don't think that's going to come back.
I think it was convenient for this movie.
But I also think that that's, I guess, the beauty of multiverse storytelling.
You can pull literally any rabbit out of the hat and it just works.
So this hasn't been in any of the Kang stuff or anything like that.
There's not been any conversation about Anchor Beans.
This is the first time, right?
Not that I heard.
They've sort of gotten close to it as an idea a few times, but to my knowledge, they've never done it.
And it wouldn't surprise me if they just drop it entirely.
And I think that's a mistake because that's one of the pieces that was on the MCU level.
You know, I talked about, like, there's a Deadpool level, there's the actor level, and then there's, like, the broader MCU level.
And that's a broader MCU level thing.
So that's something that you want to make sure you continue, you know, that you carry forward and that makes...
It prevents Deadpool from being something that you would just want to throw to the void, right?
It offers very little, so it's got to count.
Well, and I feel like the TVA and the Loki series has described certain events as being either unavoidable or unchangeable, these, like, canon events that can't not happen.
So I wonder if something about that is tied to anchor beings, but I just feel like maybe this was conveniently concocted for this movie, for this very specific thing to work.
But I don't know if that's going to be something I'm going to find too believable in the rest of this.
But also, you know, I think you guys have heard enough of my saucy take on just not being totally enthused by the multiverse storytelling lately.
So saucy.
Yeah, I felt like the anchor being that was like the crux of this, the whole plot of this movie.
Like that's that's the end.
This concept came out of nowhere.
So I feel like that was part of the, you know, writing process of like, we need this type of person.
We need because otherwise it doesn't make sense why he had to go and find another Logan.
Right.
Again, like if you're looking at a whiteboard and it's like Age of Apocalypse, Logan, short Logan and all these other things, old man Logan.
And you're like, how do we get all this together?
I don't know what if Wade has to go to like a bunch of different realities and he meets all these logins.
But why would he do that?
I don't know, because there's something special about Logan.
What could that be?
I don't know.
Let's think about it.
Oh, what if he's like an anchor being?
What would that be?
You know what I mean?
Like it's dumb.
It's like you're in the writers room right there.
I wasn't going to mention this, but when I was 17, I was a freshman in college.
I wrote along with a couple other friends.
We had like a rotating story, like a round robin fiction story.
And in that, when it was my turn to write, I came up with the idea of there being different versions of the characters in different realities.
Like one of them was what I called a pillar, meaning he existed in every reality, right?
And if you kill enough pillars, the reality collapses.
So that was my version of an anchor beam, essentially.
Like instead of it being one and the dumb word of anchor, I use the word pillar.
And it was, you know, it's a kid thing.
It's stupid.
It's silly, right?
Like, I mean, I'm not saying it was the dumbest idea I've ever had.
That's a very long list.
But it isn't exactly brilliant writing, and it wasn't used brilliantly here.
I think it was just another example of doing the plot last.
Well, and you know, and all of this at some point, too, can be maybe looked at through the lens of old comic books anyway.
I mean, look at how so many heroes have gotten their powers through, you know, funny, unexplainable phenomenon or just weird things that are like, oh, gamma radiation is the reason that the Hulk is the Hulk or these weird chemicals that just happened to spill in the street made Matt Murdock blind, but also super sensed up to 11.
You know, so much of that at some point, I just forgive because it's this comic book pulpy storytelling as well.
So I guess it's weird how much I'll give something a pass, but then I'll also still sort of judge it harshly.
Well, I always think that there's a difference between something that was introduced when you were a kid versus something that is equally stupid that was introduced when you were an adult.
Right.
I just I think there's that's two distinct categories, right?
I think it's if the anchor beings had been a common thing, common trope in the comics in the 70s or 80s or 90s or 60s or whatever, even the early 2000s, I think people would be like, yeah, okay.
Yeah, it's an anchor being.
Sure.
Why not?
But to introduce it now, I just don't think works.
I think it's so it stands out as as dumb as gamma radiation would be if you introduced it now.
All right.
So just as just as much as they brought Wolverine out of a universe that wasn't one that we knew or could maybe even totally empathize with yet, it was again introducing a whole new piece of information and then not really filling in the backfill of it either.
Like we didn't really get Logan's real backstory.
We had to fill in a lot of our own blanks ourselves.
And now I guess I'm going to have to do that thinking about anchor beings and the sacred timeline.
Right.
OK, so on that note, my theory, which I mentioned earlier to you guys separately about the sacred timeline is the reason 616.
OK, for those of you who are not total nerds, all the different alternate universes in the MCU have been assigned numbers.
And 616, I think, is the number they've assigned to the movies we've all been watching.
And they started calling it the sacred timeline.
And maybe they explain why that was in Loki.
But I don't remember.
So my theory as to why that's the sacred timeline is because that's the timeline where Loki comes from.
And now he's the god of the multiverse.
Right.
Which I think makes sense.
But did Kang have his own sacred timeline?
Was it different?
I don't remember.
Do you guys remember that stuff?
He who remains?
I don't because the Kang story was one that I had, honestly, at the time and at that age, a really difficult time following.
And it wasn't more than just beat-em-ups and team-ups that I really enjoyed at that time.
But I've always known that the main universe of all the characters that we've come to know and love, Peter Parker, Steve Rogers, Tony Stark, Natasha Romanoff, all of them, they're from Earth 616.
I know Miles Morales is from a totally different Earth or different timeline and dimension.
And there are still so many other characters that are.
But I think that's why they prescribed 616 to the MCU as well so that they could say, hey, you comic book readers out there, we see you.
We see you.
You know what's what.
And this is also our our world.
The world that you live in is this movie world, the same world that our literary characters live in.
OK, last thing I wanted to say about this movie before we talk a little bit about the MCU as a whole and its future.
So the scene with Thor holding Deadpool.
Yes, I'm glad we're talking about that.
OK, so they for those of you haven't seen this movie very early on, there in the TVA on one of the screens when Mr.
Paradox is explaining why he plucked a daredevil from his particular timeline and is saving him, even though his universe or his timeline is going to cease to be, is because he has an important role to play in the sacred timeline.
616.
And as part of that, we see the war holding a injured, I guess, is it fair to say describe Deadpool is injured?
I don't know.
Anyway, he's holding him.
Thor's got some weird cut and some like staples on his face, and he looks very upset about it.
And that would normally not be a big deal, right?
Like Deadpool gets excited about it.
Ha ha ha.
Just another joke moving on.
But they kept doing callbacks.
It was at least four times, maybe five, that Ryan Reynolds mentions that Thor held him in that moment.
I thought for sure we were going to get a post credit scene where that happened.
Yeah.
But it's never paid off.
I thought we would at least get something with that scene in it.
Something, anything.
It's crazy.
It seemed like it was a throwaway thing, but in the beginning, but he did keep on referencing it.
So, yeah, I thought the same thing.
I thought the end credits was going to be at least something regarding that.
Do you think we're ever going to get it paid off?
I don't know.
Maybe a deleted version of it, deleted director's cut.
Well, there was a part of me that was wondering if that was literally the footage from Thor, the Dark World, where Thor is holding Loki as he was dying at the end of it to whoever that dark elf was that Christopher Ecclestone played and all those big bads.
I wondered if it was literally just like a body swap for that footage.
I don't know.
I'm just curious, but do I want the satisfaction of some sort of conclusion or ending to connect that?
Absolutely.
I wanted to see that.
All right.
So this film, do you guys think it's going to break a billion dollars?
Yes.
There were a lot of empty seats.
A lot for opening weekend.
But it was also, I mean, it's playing in a zillion theaters too.
I think it's going to, I think it's going to hit a billion dollars worldwide.
I really do.
I think this is going to play well overseas.
I think the only thing that might hold it back is the R rating.
It's going to be hard to get.
I mean, you can't take families to see this movie.
That will be, I think that might be my only callback.
But I think some, I think people are going to, I think this movie, people are going to see it more than once.
I think I'm going to see it more than once in the theater.
I know I'm going to take my wife to go see it.
So I think they have, there's some replay value in this movie to go back and like watch the movie knowing what cameos came, like knowing where the cameos are, like what you said, like knowing about spoilers.
Now people can go back and watch the movie that way.
So I think there's a lot of return value in this movie.
There is no other superhero movie coming out this year, except I think, wait, oh no, there's a Venom movie, there's a Kraven movie.
So I guess there are a couple, but it's not until the fall.
So I think it's got weeks and weeks of playing, playability.
I think it definitely has the potential.
And I think largely a lot of that will be on the shoulders of the, of the Titans that are Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman, to be honest.
I think this duo, this team up, the way that I would, you know, you maybe you might be excited for a team up in comic books back in the 90s.
This is awesome.
These are characters that have wanted to work together for a long time, actors that have wanted to work together for a long time.
And this movie definitely felt like a movie they made for fans.
And I think that, yeah, I'm even hopeful for them.
I hope they play to those numbers.
I know that Deadpool's 1 and 2 and Logan were around like the 700 million barrier and probably more than that.
So I hope this is somewhere at least 900 to maybe over a billion.
All right.
So do you think this is going to have our predicted or possible halo effect on Agatha and Captain America 4?
Is it 4?
Yes.
I don't think so.
OK, so you don't think it's going to help Agatha?
I don't think so.
I mean, I think there is value of people getting more excited about the end, like what you said earlier in the podcast, that eyes are going to be on an MCU.
But I think Agatha is coming out farther.
I think it's not until October or so, like it's a winter show.
And it just there's I just I can't see the crossover there.
Yeah, so a lot of what we're dealing with right now has to do with the strikes last year.
So there's not as much content.
Right.
And what's out there is is not as finished, I guess.
Or, you know, it wasn't they didn't spend as much time on a lot of it.
So I don't think Agatha I think it was hurt by that.
I don't know that it's really going to be particular.
I don't even know that Disney is really going to emphasize it particularly.
I think they're thinking hopefully Deadpool 3 draws in a lot of the fans who have largely abandoned the MCU or just been pushed away depending on how you want to look at that.
And they're hoping that they won't really pay attention to Agatha, which means they're going to try to hold on to whatever hype this film generates until Falcon comes out next year, which is why I think we got that trailer when we did and why they put the Red Hulk in it and everything.
You know, they're trying to get the core of their fan base excited and keep them that way all the way until February next year.
And I don't know, man, that does not seem terribly realistic to me.
So I think this is going to be an uptick, and I think it probably will help Agatha a little bit.
But I think Agatha is going to deflate a lot of what comes out of this movie.
I don't think it's going to be that amazing.
I think the Rider Strike hit it pretty hard and the actors and everything else going on last year.
So I think that series is kind of a mess just based on them changing the title as many times and everything else that seems to be going on there.
It might have even been in their best interest to just shelve it.
We'll have to see when it comes out.
But I don't think that they I don't think it'll it'll be what people want to see.
So I think they're going to have to start over with the whole promotions January next year.
Just get the hype going again to the best of their ability.
And if Falcon America isn't good, if it isn't as good as some of the better MCU products that we've seen in the past, then I think they're going to be in trouble again.
They seem to be concluding the wrong things are wrong over and over again.
And that's really scary to hear as a fan.
I agree there.
Well, with the upcoming properties that I can think of too, you know, we've got the Fantastic Four movie, but that's going to be maybe a moment in time piece in the 60s.
I'm not sure what lasting impact that could have on the larger MCU.
But then we've got Captain America Brave New Order.
I am excited about that movie.
Also just a big Captain America fan.
Love those comic books and all the stories.
Really just a huge Winter Soldier fan too.
So I'm really happy to know that we'll get some more of Sebastian Stan's Bucky in the future.
But I feel like Marvel to me is probably not going to really get back on the horse again until they have figured out what their next Avengers movie is.
And I know that they have loosely announced those projects and maybe foolishly, I guess time will tell, but Kang Dynasty was supposed to come out 2026 and Secret War is supposed to come out 2027.
Do I really think anything right now at this existing moment is building towards any type of Avengers movie?
Not really.
So I'm kind of wondering if a whole new movie, an ensemble will be the course correction that we get.
And that's frankly what I'm hopeful for at this point is we get whatever this Kang Dynasty project is supposed to be in 2026 and that it's taking from all these multiverse threads to point us somewhere.
Yeah, that's a lot of time.
Secret Wars, is that the one where Lawrence Pugh is part of it and the girl from Hawkeye?
Do you know who I'm talking about?
Oh, no.
David Harbour's character?
Yeah, you're talking about Thunderbolts.
Thunderbolts, thank you.
Now, don't you think that's kind of like an Avengers light type of movie?
I don't think it's going to work like an Avengers movie.
I think they've conceptualized it more in line with the projects where those characters come from, like Black Widow, which was one of the first bad, really, I mean, it's like big budget, not good films in the MCU.
And Florence Pugh, I don't think her version of Black Widow has ever really gotten on the right track.
Like, her portrayal is just not that compelling to me, and she's going to be the lead there.
Anyway, so I think there are a lot of problems there.
You guys are, you know, Steve, you're assuming the Fantastic Four is going to come out in July 2025.
I'm not sure of that.
I wouldn't be surprised if it got pushed back to November or something like that.
And I'm glad you asked this question, because I wanted to talk about it.
Story predictions, right?
Where will the MCU go?
So just in a brief recap here, the multiverse barrier was crossed or damaged in Doctor Strange, the first one, Loki, seasons one and two, What If, seasons one and two, Spider-Man, No Way Home, Doctor Strange, Multiverse of Madness, I think probably Quantumania as well, and maybe some other stuff that I missed.
Do you guys think that the multiverse barrier was damaged enough?
Like, did this film contribute to what I assume they're building towards, which is a massive series of incursions that create, that's what Secret Wars is, I think is what it's going to be, is that these different universes are basically coming, there's a battle world that's created, like, you know, there's an area where these universes are collapsing on each other and mixing characters, just like we saw in this film, right, so, or not exactly, this is the Void and the Void is a sample box, it's a Whitman sampler, right, and I think what we're going to get in Secret Wars is a patchwork of different universes incurring, incurring?
Encouraging?
Encouraging.
Encouraging one another.
All over each other.
And that's what we're headed for, right?
So did this movie add to that idea?
And do you think I'm on the right track?
I think so, yes.
Because there have been a series of, you know, timeline-altering events, and I feel like that's what's going to lead to this big rift that will open Battleworld, that also can make this potential of all of these different properties, all of these maybe even disjointed pieces and factions of storytelling all be on the same playing field, having to either fight it out for who's the universe in the end, but almost like all comic book storytelling, and especially in the last 20 years or so, I feel like all of these timeline mishaps and misadventures are also leading us to an eventual, like, re-streaming of the timeline, almost a reboot.
And I don't love using that type of phraseology because that happens in comic books these days, like, every five to eight years.
Just, they'll say they're rebooting the entire universe, but effectively, it's just them saying, hey, all of these events still happen to these characters.
It just happened in a much shorter timeframe now.
We're just doing that, and now it's a whole new universe again.
So here we go.
Let's tell fresh stories.
And I sort of wonder if that's maybe what we're going to build up to eventually is just something that's going to, I don't know, Flashpoint set us up for like either a new or prime universe, you know?
That's a dirty word now.
I know it is.
Not to comic fans.
Nope.
Yeah, so, you know, I actually do like the multiverse stuff.
I like the incursion idea.
I know people are sick of it, and I understand why.
I think the execution is the problem.
I don't think the concept is particularly problematic.
It's just been abused.
But I do really like that it offers the opportunity to go back and, without rewriting what's been done, to correct everything, all these characters.
Like Moon Knight, right?
So Moon Knight's a great character, really interesting.
I did not like that series, right?
There's some good stuff in there, and I'm not gonna...
If you like it, that's great.
I don't have a problem with people who like it.
But I would love to see them use this incursion, this multiverse, these kind of resets, whatever, to give us a season two, but set it straight.
Set it on a better course, right?
Get a little bit closer to the comic in some ways and a little bit further from a lot of what the phases, the last couple of phases have been about, which is goofy and weird.
I think it's a great opportunity to do that.
I don't think you need to do a whole universe reboot to make it happen, but if that's the plan, let's get that next year.
You know what I mean?
Let's just go ahead and do that ASAP, because dragging on like this with all the baggage that they've accumulated in the last couple of phases, it's not sustainable.
People get excited about a movie like this or X-Men 97, and then you get two or three projects after that, which seem like they have no audience at all, or at least no audience within the fans of the MCU.
So yeah, I'm fine with it, but let's get on with it.
Let's get to the end of that.
Okay, so do you guys expect Deadpool is going to pop up more, or is this the end of Deadpool?
I don't think it's the end, but I can't see him popping up as a cameo or something else.
I think he's going to do either one more movie or maybe go off into the sunset.
But I feel like Ryan Reynolds really likes playing this character.
I think I can't see him popping up in a...
Well, no, I can't say that either.
Ryan Reynolds is known to pop out in different movies.
I can't see why he wouldn't do that for Deadpool.
I don't think this is the last we'll see of him.
I'm not sure it's the last we'll see of Ryan Reynolds' Deadpool.
I feel like this is a swan song to a time that was all of this Deadpool now and before, but I do feel like anything they do from here will probably just be to support some aspect of the storytelling in the future, or they'll just pepper him in just to keep some level of excitement, you know, among fans, I think.
Yeah, there was no, like, clear cut, like, you know, Tony Stark is not coming back, and Steve Rogers is not coming back.
I think Deadpool is going to, when he does, like, give it up, he's going to have a send off.
And you know what?
If they gave him a really wild send off and so kept it in the rated R world, I would love to see Deadpool kills the Marvel Universe as a whole story.
And if that was also some part of incurring events and stuff like that, I could be totally intrigued by that.
Yeah.
And I mean, there was a way to kill off Deadpool and Wolverine.
They had their out in this movie, and they didn't take it, and I think they didn't take it on purpose so that they could keep it open for them to play these characters again.
Yeah, I don't think the question is, will we see Deadpool anymore?
Because I asked it, and that was the wrong question to ask.
I think the answer is how, because he definitely will.
There's no way that Ryan Reynolds will not appear as Deadpool again in MCU properties because I think it's fun for him.
I think this was a big victory for him to get this property off the ground and get it where it is.
I think he just brought back Hugh Jackman and for him to turn around and be like, okay, now I'm done, a la Logan, and I'm not coming.
I mean, obviously that's ridiculous.
So I think he will be back.
My only question, though, like my real uncertain element here is, is he going to be an Avenger?
Are they going to pay that off?
Is he going to be like a man?
I mean, I think that could work.
It might be hard because of the rating.
And maybe some fans will be like, no, I never want to see Deadpool if he's not cursing, right?
If he's not making ridiculous sex jokes.
But if you guys remember, like, Animaniacs and some of these old cartoons, they made sex innuendo jokes all the time.
Like they did adult humor.
That's just that's a thing.
And Deadpool could easily be in a PG-13 movie.
And I think if smart writers wrote his, you know, sex humor is like, you know, typical humor, but they did it in a much more clever way, that it would be so much better.
And it would make an Avengers movie that much more enjoyable, especially considering who we're likely to get as Avengers.
You know, the next crop of actors are not as charismatic as the ones we had before.
I think having a Ryan Reynolds in there makes sense.
And hopefully with really good writing, it could work and it wouldn't offend fans.
But I don't know.
Hey, maybe not.
I could see them doing a Deadpool and Spider-Man, because obviously the Sony Marvelverse is just a disaster.
I don't know who's going to see Venom.
I assume some of you listeners are excited about Venom 3.
I'm betting both of my guests here are going to go pay for tickets.
It's horrible.
Horrible, horrible.
I admit, unfortunately, that yes, I will pay for those tickets and still see it.
But yeah, Deadpool's been a character that's been a part of a lot of mashups, a lot of team ups.
I mean, Deadpool Cable's a big one.
Deadpool Wolverine's a big one.
And I got to really hope that someday we're going to get a Deadpool Spider-Man.
That would be a dream.
Yeah, I think they would be good together.
I think he'll pop up at some point.
I don't know if they'll do a whole film because I don't think a lot about this film really works.
And I think trying to do...
If you did a Deadpool Spider-Man, people would expect this again.
And this was just, oh, my God, what an undertaking.
And I wouldn't even recommend they try to do something like this again.
So he might pop up in Spider-Man or in a film that also has Spider-Man in it.
But I don't know.
We'll see.
It could be that he just gets excited about some other idea.
And then we end up with Deadpool 4 or just more crossover films or he's a main part of the MCU because Lord knows they need it.
They need someone who's going to put butts in the seats.
And when they start maybe doing stuff with X-Men, depending on if there is a new Wolverine or if there's anything that's Deadpool adjacent to some of that storytelling, like the Weapon X program or Department K or X-Force, like the actual X-Force.
I mean, I love X-Force from Deadpool 2, but if it actually comes to be a real thing, then there are definitely places where I think he could pop up and I think be a good supporting character, because I don't know how much more we'll see the protagonist Deadpool.
Yeah, which is a bit of a shame, but it all boils down to execution.
And if it's done well, people will love it.
You've certainly got the material this film offers.
If nothing else, a lot of material to work with going forward.
All right, so anything else you guys want to say about Deadpool or the MCU, your hopes and dreams for the future, or thoughts about this particular film?
I'll reiterate, I really like this movie.
I know we've been pretty critical of it, but I only have seen the movies.
I've never read one comic book in my life.
So I've never read a book in my life.
That's more believable.
He's an actor.
Hi, Arab.
I'm an actor.
I can memorize lines.
I can do that.
Because he doesn't know what any of it means.
No, I had a really good time with it.
I really did.
And I think if you wanted to go and shut off your brains for two hours, two hours and seven minutes, Ryan Reynolds, I think all the acting, all the characters in it, I think they all were game.
They were all charismatic.
They were all enjoyable to watch.
For the future of the MCU, I'm going to see it.
I pretty much liked every movie.
I mean, I think I was one of the only people kind of like The Eternals.
Oh, wow, you're the guy.
It's on one.
I'm very easily pleased.
So don't take, I guess, don't take my advice for criticism.
But I like, I go to movies to be entertained.
And I think this did the job.
Nice.
Can confirm.
I was very entertained.
I laughed a lot.
I was going to say, I'm sure you guys even heard me vocally laughing and reacting to a lot of the moments.
And I, you know, spectacular action is always going to pull me in.
And there were so many great things that we got to see.
I loved every fight that was Wolverine in Deadpool, even if it was a copious amount of it all.
If one thing is still sticking in my mind, it's probably even something I've just wanted to see since I was a kid.
It was a live action Wolverine literally scurrying on the ground.
And like coming out at his opponent from a lower angle because he's always been a shorter character and he's always come up into like lunges and leaps and there was a lot of that.
And I really, really, really enjoyed the depth that they maybe looked at a lot of those comics and animation to say, hey, let's deliver that.
Yeah, a lot of attention to detail, that's for sure.
Absolutely.
All right, so I am curious what the audience thinks of this.
Please write in, let me know what you think.
Did you like this?
Is it saving the MCU?
Is it not saving the MCU?
And Matt and Steve, one more time.
Matt first, remind me where people can see your work.
Well, I'm on YouTube.
You can see some stuff on YouTube.
Just search for, just Google Matt Baughman.
Or you can look at some of the previous episodes where Matt was a guest.
And I put the link to your stuff on YouTube in the show notes.
Yes, that would be the easier way to do it.
Because yeah, I do mostly theater stuff, so I don't really have anything to plug because I'm unemployed right now.
Of course, I'm sure we'll have you on again.
You can tell us about your upcoming work then too.
So Steve, where can audiences find your work online?
For those that might be interested or just looking to see, you know, the kind of good time I have as both Spider-Man as an actor and a trapeze student and everything else in between, you can find most of my artistic endeavors on my Instagram.
That's at Spidey Steve.
I have a couple of links in there to the short films that I've been in, things that you can definitely peruse, have a good time, and give me a shout.
And I guess as far as upcoming things go, I'll be working at the 72-hour Film Festival, which is in about two months.
But if that's something that you find yourself out there to either catch the viewings of those films or if you, you know, live stream them and want to watch all of those films, please do.
Lots of great ones, especially in the professional category.
And then, yeah, please look up Starwipe Films.
That's a group that I've worked with a lot these last few years, and I can't rave enough about the work of Brian and Karen Pennington that have directed me on a lot of those projects.
Outstanding.
All right, so as always, thank you to the people who made the projects we discussed today, and thank you to the listeners.
You can reach the show at dontencourage.gmail.com or you can find us on social media under Don't Encourage Us.
Check out the show notes for more information and our playlists on YouTube and Spotify.
If you'd like some more music, I put that Encouraged Grooves playlist out there for you.
So next week, I'll be back with my regular co-host and we'll be covering the top 25 Nicolas Cage movies of 2024.
But I want to say thank you again to both of my guests this week.
It's been a great show.
I appreciate you coming on.
Yeah, thanks for having us.
Jason, Matt, thanks for having me.
It was a pleasure and I'd love to do it again sometime soon.
Definitely.
Alright, bye everybody.
Take care dudes.