In this podcast episode, our hosts set out to develop an original idea for a science fiction short film. They begin by discussing the Knight Rider Universe, V, and Teen Wolf before awkwardly rambling their way to the point. As they brainstorm ideas, they consider the visual and thematic elements that will make their film stand out, the importance of creating compelling characters and a strong narrative arc, as well as incorporating social commentary and exploring larger themes. By the end of the episode, the hosts have generated a number of exciting ideas and have laid the foundation for an engaging and thought-provoking science-fiction film. --------WARNING: Themes of Suicide Discussed-------
In this podcast episode, our hosts set out to develop an original idea for a science fiction short film. They begin by discussing the Knight Rider Universe, V, and Teen Wolf before awkwardly rambling their way to the point. As they brainstorm ideas, they consider the visual and thematic elements that will make their film stand out, the importance of creating compelling characters and a strong narrative arc, as well as incorporating social commentary and exploring larger themes. By the end of the episode, the hosts have generated a number of exciting ideas and have laid the foundation for an engaging and thought-provoking science-fiction film.
--------WARNING: Themes of Suicide Discussed-------
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Jason: Welcome to. Don't Encourage us, the podcast where we talk about the big ideas and fiction projects of all different kinds. Books, movies, TV shows, video games, nothing's off limits, and make sure you stay away from those like and subscribe icons.
Steve: We believe art is a collective endeavor.
Jason: We tapped into ones it into Thetic artistic consciousness.
Yeah. Sound
Steve: is for everybody. Just like nobody owns land.
Jason: You put your white suit on and strut around the courtroom saying that. What is art? What is sound? What is sound? Am I making sound? Do I own this sound now?
Steve: Do I own your
Jason: sound, sir? You made a sound in response to my sound. Ladies, ladies, gentlemen, that sound and then just make random sounds throughout the entire trial and then just bang on the desk every time.
Lay on desk. Do I own this sound? Just rip a massive fart. Is this sound for everybody right at the end? Tm.
Steve: It goes straight to the Supreme Court.
Jason: We are already people versus sound. People. Time. Yep. People versus sound.
Steve: The famous Supreme
Jason: Court case in 2022 in our white suits with our canes that we point at people,
Steve: which threw out copyright law forever
Jason: trade off our the cane with whoever's talking. It started Domino effect in the copyright industry. That's right. No one owns anything. No one owns anything. Do you own paper?
Do you own the English language? No. I'm taking your novel
Steve: air. No one owns air. No one
Jason: can own this novel. Good stuff. This is how dystopian futures happen. Idiots like us. Yep. This, this is bureaucracy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well they end up locking down literally everything under ridiculous laws because we pushed it just a little too far.
A little too, and the slippery slope got, we got through was chaos. It was like a time. Yeah. And there will be statues of us so people can throw rotten fruit at them forever. Okay. So story break. Story break theme. I think that's where we started. Story break I say. I say you pick, uh, pick a favorite TV show, preferably some sort of children's show, and then make up new lyrics.
I think that's the strategy I thought I was gonna do. Magnum pi. Oh, you can do that.
Steve: Story break. Story break. Story break.
Jason: Story break. I love it. That's today's theme, Magnum pi. Awesome. So next week we're gonna do dead heat, right? Oh yeah,
Steve: I have it on my notes here in Treat Williams, the actor.
Jason: Actually, I, I really, this is off topic. Uh, do we have a topic? We'll get to it. No, not yet. Uh, this, this is standard for us, but I actually have gotten excited this week about doing the, I started with thinking I want to do team night Writer. I want to do an episode on the TV show Team Night Writer. Are you familiar with that?
I heard about this. Who've seen this? No. No. Okay. So you know night rider, right? Mm-hmm. Michael Knight, David Hasselhoff. Okay. So they've tried a few times to story break. Story break. Um, they've tried a few times to resurrect that ip. One of the attempts was called Team Night Rider, where instead of one supercar.
It was a series of vehicles. I think it was. It was pretty lame choice. It was like a F-150 or some sort of pickup truck. It was like a suburban type S U V, if I recall. There was a sports car, at least one, and then I think there were two motorcycles for some reason, but then they could. Go together to form a car.
I don't know. It was, it was weird. It didn't really work. Um, but it's interesting to me when they try to like desperately resurrect an IP and make it work. So then I realized, uh, if I'm gonna do Team Night writer, or if we're gonna do team night writer, cause I'm gonna drag you through this as well, like mm-hmm.
Sounds right, like trailing behind the car by the bumper when some sort of nightmare scenario. Uh, I'd also like to do the other times they tried to resurrect the night rider ip, cuz they did a night rider 2000. And then they also more recently did a night rider series where it looked like a reboot, like a total reboot.
But then they revealed during season one that this, that the lead was actually the, I think he was the son. Of Michael Knight. When, when did this come out, by the way? Oh, um, I, well, obviously you don't watch enough television. Um, it's not, it's ever since the eighties, they're kind of peppered throughout the eighties.
Right. There was a, it was supposed to be a pilot, but it ended up just being a TV movie, and they made kit, I think it was set in like, I forget, it was like the far future, you know, the year 2010 or something. Um, and it was made in the nineties. I wanna say team night Rider was like late nineties. Night rider.
2000 was like year 2000, I think, but it was set in the future. I'm, don't quote me on that, I gotta do my research. But he was a red car. It was like a red supercar. Uh, I don't know how I missed this. Oh, dude, there's a whole night rider Mythology Carr at one point, uh, you know, k a r r. Automated Roving Robot, right.
Uhhuh. So in the original series it was just like, uh, basically the exact same as Kit, but it had like a gray under paneling or the side paneling was partially gray. Uh, and he was mean. Um, but then when they brought him back for, uh, night writer, I think it, what did they bring him back for? Team night Writer maybe.
I think it was Team Night Rider. He was actually a transforming vehicle where he turned into like a Terminator robot as well as a car. I think that was in that one. Yeah. Was it gray? Uh, it had, it was black on top. And then gray paneling you talking about in the, in the original. I remember a gray
Steve: version of that car for some reason.
It had gray on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So then I, so
Jason: I vaguely remember this. Yeah. Yeah. He had a gray line in the original series. Uh, so of course the original night, uh, night, what is it? Night? 2000? Um, yeah, the night kit. Writer. Kit. Yeah. Kit kit. Kit was voiced by the same guy who was the principal on, was it saved by the belt?
No, that's Mr. Belling different show. Uh oh. There was a kid show about a guy. Oh man. I can't think of it, but it was the same. Actor he is, he's actually a, an actor you'd recognize. He did the Voice. But for Carr, they had somebody with a much more sinister voice. And there was a great part in one of his episodes where Carr is like sitting on the side of a street and he's kind of bored because whoever's dealing with him is in the store and he's scanning the people around him, the pedestrians.
And he goes, well, well, well, a pacemaker. He like zaps it to give the guy hard.
Steve: That's, this sounds terrible, but I can't
Jason: wait to see what it's all about. We should spend at least an hour and a half on it. If it's an episode, you have to edit. If not a multi episode part one. This is season part one of five, a podcast mini series.
Season one. We do Treat Williams and Joe Piscopo. God. Season two is the mythology of night writer.
Steve: You would think that wouldn't be that long, the mythology of night writer, but we'll make it as long as possible. Four and a half hours, at
Jason: least five seconds. We live in the era of, yeah, absolutely. We live in the era of trying to milk ips.
People like what is familiar? You know, I don't know if it's a decline of America, like we had our glory days. They just wanna rehash it. They did. Everybody just wants to go back there. Yeah. With what? V, the animated show. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Absolutely. And they did it v with one of the actresses that I love.
Yeah. She was in it, but it was, it was, um, Morena Backer in, right? That's right. Yeah. But man, even with her in it, that remake was difficult to get. It
Steve: was, it was tough. Yeah. It was a one trick pony, like there wasn't much to
Jason: it. It'll be back. They'll dig it up out of the grave, they'll dig that horse skeleton out.
In
Steve: 2000 they came out with Gossip Girl again. Oh, and that show, this was out in like the two thousands. It's not even that old. Mm-hmm. And they just re redid it and screened the, the series. You'll say
Jason: the new ones not bad. The new Gossip Curl or screen? No, the new screen movie. Is there a series? Oh good. I
think
Steve: there's a series on like MTV or something, but I think that was bad.
And they canceled it.
Jason: Uhhuh? Teen Wolf. Teen Wolf. They resurrected Teen Wolf because when you watch Teen Wolf, you think, man, there's a lot of meat here. This is really the Lord of the Rings for the new generation. Right? Rich. There's so much going on. Right. Rich high school kid, layer after layer of complexity, right.
Can go, you can go anywhere with this puberty and you're werewolf. That's the pitch. That's the, and you're great
Steve: at basketball. Right?
Jason: That's the other part that was attacked on bit because basketball was popular at the time. That's it. Right? And they resurrected it and turned it into a TV series.
Steve: Incredible. Speaking of half-baked ideas. Mm-hmm. So this idea had been kicking around for a long time. I came up with it years ago, was this idea, you know, the, the concept of like magical realism and literature where things like happen and it's just part of the world. No one really delves too deeply into it, like a character suddenly disappears.
And they're not part of the narrative anymore. You know, they go out for a walk and they don't come back and it's just accepted that they never came back. But no one really digs deeper into where they went. So I was thinking of this concept. Everyone knows gravity is a force, et cetera. It's like a, you
Jason: know, law of physics.
I don't know. I don't remember that part in the Bible, but continue. But
Steve: this idea that there's this guy, he's having like a, he has a pretty rough life. He doesn't like his job at all. And one day he's like hoping that he'll just float away and he ends up literally like floating away, right? There's no more gravity for this person.
And I was thinking to myself like, where could you take this story? Right? Could it be something where like, Gravity only is effect. It only works in certain ways that we're not sure about. Like there's a new discovery in science that's made based on the fact that this guy just floated away, seemingly defined the law of gravity, which everyone has known.
You know, larger object, smaller objects. Smaller objects attracted to a larger object and. There's a mystery behind this. Um, scientists get involved. You're kind of following the story behind that. So what's actually happening with this guy? Why did he float away? Then other people start floating away too, and it seems like the force of gravity that's attracting everything to the earth.
And everything together is starting to kind of fall apart and they're not sure why this is happening. And I haven't really taken this, this idea really much farther than that, but I thought it would be an interesting concept kind of along that whole magical realism where there's like a concept that we know that is true, but within the confines of this world, it just doesn't exist the same way that we thought
Jason: it did.
So it, I I'm gonna stop you there. I love this. This is amazing idea. This is so good. So what I think you're doing is you've created a world. And you've set up a context where there's a lot of potential for stories. Like there's so many aspects, so many levels of, um, perspective, you know, like big picture all the way down to the most intimate.
Like you could look at this as a trend in the entire universe and explore that from a near omniscient perspective. All the way down to following just one person as they experienced this.
Steve: And to that point, when I originally thought of this, I thought about it as a, a short film. So basically the film would just be around this one guy, how his life is like going nowhere.
He's really depressed. He wants to disappear basically, and one day he gets his wish. Mm-hmm. And it would be, you know, let's say a 10 minute short around what actually ends up happening, which is he actually just floats away. And that's the end of Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of this short film. And it's basically just like a character study.
Mm-hmm. Like what happens when you wish for something hard enough? And you know, you get that wish and because it was this magical realism concept, it just, it shocks everybody. But we don't take it down the line of like the scientific angle. We look at it more as like, this guy, the end of the story is basically the end of his life, but it's like taken from him by the universe, you know?
Yeah. It's not that he commits suicide or anything like that, it's just one day he gets it. He's walking home. And he just starts floating away. And I just thought, you know how easy that would cause I was thinking about ideas for how do you do a short film that's really budget conscious but has like kind of this higher concept where you could easily show this, you know, by just showing his legs, like moving off the sidewalk and that's how it ends.
So it's basically everything that happens up until that particular point. And then I thought of the scientific angle that what if gravity really is falling apart? And this phenomenon's happening all over the world, but no one knows why.
Jason: Right? Yeah. Yeah. This, that's so interesting. So I think one of the things we would need to decide would be what is the tone?
Like, is this, or what is the genre, right? Is this magical realism where you presented the audience with something they need to accept? There, it will not be explained, and you need to convey that it's not gonna be explained. And then, uh, follow the consequences of it. Like that's the one thing that they'll accept is like, for reasons unknown, gravity is not functioning or it's breaking apart and we're gonna follow this person as he slowly or she.
Slowly, you know, loses gravity initially being lighter and then slowly floating and missing or passing up on opportunities to grab hold of things. Mm-hmm. Right. And it's only affecting them until you realize at a certain altitude that there are other people mm-hmm. Who are also affected, or everyone's affected or something like that.
And then, you know, the end right before they all die, you know, uh, or before you find out what happens to them. But a very different way to take it. Is to, um, creatively show the effects of gravity breaking down in a way that you understand as the writer mm-hmm. And is slowly revealed to the audience through science fiction.
Right. And then that has broader implications. So it can also start off with one individual, but as the scope expands, you realize that it has, you know, impact in the end on a planetary or even, you know, maybe the solar system like a, or maybe, uh, greater than that kind of, it's like space is warping and a part of.
The universe or something like that. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. It's,
Steve: it's an interesting way to take it cuz you can take it from the individual level. So. But I like the, what you mentioned about how he, maybe it's not so sudden if it's not so sudden. That would be a really interesting take. I think.
Like little by little, this starts happening. Mm-hmm. And them trying to figure it out. Kind of like that, what is it? Franz Kafka, the metamorphosis, where that guy turns into a huge bug, little by little. Mm-hmm. But they never explained why. And he's like just transforming into this creature. Little by little, but this would be around gravity.
Like at first he's like a little bit lighter. Huh? That's weird. Like, yeah, I took a step, but I seem to float a little bit, right? Mm-hmm. And how that start starts affecting him. And where he like, maybe he's in his apartment or his house or whatever it is. And at one point he's literally floating really high and now he's kind of stuck to the, to the ceiling, let's say.
Yeah. And now he like has to figure out how to get around and then eventually he ends up not being able to do it, and he like gets pulled out of the window or whatever it might be. And then he finds all those people who are also up there with him and we don't know why or all this is happening and people are seeing it happen over time.
And then it becomes this whole scientific exploration or like how they're gonna reverse this from happening. Or we find out that gravity is on a grid and there're only certain places on earth where this grid is malfunctioning. The other part of it was that what if gravity is functioning on earth as a force, like kind of like a force field that's being controlled somehow in some type of lab, and that's what's doing.
But gravity affects everything at the atomic level. So you need need to kind of. Explain that too, if you got into that. But let's say like you're at the atomic or subatomic level and gravity is a thing that was created and maybe everything we know about the universe was also created to function around this idea of gravity being on a grid.
But now the grid is malfunction. Mm-hmm. And there's certain areas of earth where gravity's just not functioning the way it should. So when you step over those areas, Everything lifts off. And why is that? Which is a whole other concept. I know, but I just thought it would be kind of, kind of an interesting way to look at it, like what our reality is or what we think is real is not really real.
It's all part of this construct. And gravity's just one piece of that. And when it starts malfunctioning, that's when we get into the real. Story like this mystery, like who's controlling it? Why?
Jason: Yeah. Uh, there's so many ways you could go with this aspect of it. You could absolutely do. An interesting in-depth hard sci-fi exploration.
Like, uh, six In Lieu is a Chinese science fiction author wrote Three Body Problem and a bunch of really amazing stuff. Um, one of his one novels is called Ball Lightning in English, and I think that's what it's called. Um, but it's all about the hard scientific. Uh, sorry. Hard sci-fi, interpretation of a natural phenomenon, which is ball, lightning ball lightning's like a real thing, but he takes it in a really interesting, very, um, grounded in some ways, very, uh, extremely like.
Unrealistic in others. Right. But it, it feels very real. And it's, it's a really fun, exciting, uh, in depth exploration of a complicated natural phenomenon like you're describing. Right. But then you could also take it in a different direction where you cast Kirk Cameron. And it's all about, you know, the, uh, the presence of thing.
Great force is greater, you know, or a force greater than anything science can understand, uh, and how humans are impacted partially through their lack of faith. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like, there's so many ways you can go. I would love to spend hours getting into all the different ways that you could apply science to this, but I wonder if the more interesting piece or the piece that's missing that's more significant is, why do we care about this person?
Right? If you're gonna follow one person, is this a metaphor for something in his life, like you alluded to? It reflecting his thoughts or his choices. Right. Do you have any ideas around this person that we're
Steve: gonna follow? I just had a rough sketch of someone who was successful at one point. In his given field.
But then over time he gets disillusioned. He ends up going into some type of role that he isn't really happy with. So it's all the elements, kind of like the character that you described as part of that sitcom. Mm-hmm. And kind of imagine him along those lines. Mm-hmm. Like someone who's successful, then things aren't working out for him.
He's trying to get his life together, but he's not able to. I think that would be the interesting part, right? Like you're saying, like following this one guy in his kind of journey. What if he found out that there were different parts of Earth where gravity's not working and he wants to step into that part.
So basically he wants to kill himself in this particular way. That could be something
Jason: too. Yeah. So I think you're, you're setting up a parallel between someone being, um, I mean, for lack of a better word, not being grounded. Right. Losing the things in their lives, the beliefs, the, the cornerstones, the structure, right?
Yeah. Losing direction and structure essentially. And much like a boat that isn't moored. You know, being cast out to sea or being drifting out to sea in a way that's unpredictable and feels confusing. And if you, and you're playing with gravity, To extend that metaphor. Mm-hmm. Right. Visually? Yeah. Is that what you're trying to do?
Yeah. So then the person would wrestle, sorry, answer the
Steve: question. When I first thought of this, it was a metaphor. It's like how like he doesn't have the nerve to commit suicide, or he doesn't want to do any of that. He just wants his problems taken care of for him. And what's the most basic way that he could think of?
Was if there was no gravity, if he just was able to float away. Like, you know when people are like, oh, I wish I could just disappear. Ah, yeah, but imagine it's like you're disappearing. But like he's now, like you're saying like unmoored. His life is, his life is a mess. Now he wants an easy way out. The easiest way is like another force beyond himself just takes care of his problem without him having to go through all the steps that you would need to take in order to deal with your problems or a more drastic solution, the suicide approach.
So he just wishes for the universe to, to bestow this on him, and one day he gets his wish. That's how it originally started.
Jason: Yeah, so I think you're describing someone who's oscillating between passive suicidal ideation and a passive coping style. Like they are avoidant and they want things to happen.
Like they don't have initiative or they've surrendered initiative. Mm-hmm. Um, maybe they don't believe in their own efficacy. Mm-hmm. Like they now want, or they believe that if change is gonna occur, if they're gonna achieve their goal, it's gonna be outside of their power. Right. It's gonna happen because something else did it for them.
And I think you're saying. And if that doesn't work, they would rather just not exist. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And he's oscillating between the two. So then the question is, how do you demonstrate that as part of floating away or irregular gravity, which would, you know, if it's patchwork or grid, like then at times this person's floating away and then he would drift into a zone where there is gravity.
Either to a lesser or full extent, you know, a less than normal or full extent. And then he would start to drop and he would need to make choices. You would need to see his agency because someone who's just a hundred percent passive coping isn't really gonna be interesting in this challenge. Does that make sense?
Yeah. So why would he struggle with this? What would pull him back other than gravity being temporarily restored? What thoughts or ideas might pull him back to active coping and wanting to, and like believing in his own agency? Any
Steve: ideas Actually, You just brought up an interesting, really interesting idea, which is that maybe gravity is restored for him as he starts taking action to try to fix his life.
Like as his thoughts start changing, as he's floating away, he's having those regrets, like what the hell's happening? Mm-hmm. And that kind of keeps him grounded and he needs to keep doing this, or else he is just gonna float away. Mm-hmm.
Jason: Thought that was kinda, it's an inverse. Peter Pan rules. You've gotta believe in your adult responsibilities to stay on the ground.
Yeah. Or else you float away like a, like a lost boy child. Yeah. I like that though. And Peter Pan's such a classic that you can have that, um, As part of the fabric, but never reference it. And it still will resonate with some people on some level, right? You never need to, to in any way reference Peter Pan.
But, but that's what you're starting to do, is like, maybe the child version of this idea is that you, um, you need to use your imagination and let go of be, you know, I mean, the story Peter Pan's timeless because it speaks to adults, right? Mm-hmm. We, we get too grounded. Yeah. But you've created an opposite circumstance where somebody has become so presumably overwhelmed or defeated that they're now flipping back and forth between forms of giving up.
Yeah. You know, and that's resulting in them literally losing connection with the earth. Mm-hmm. With the ground. And they, and they sometimes regain it momentarily. And maybe it's unclear to the audience why they're not floating away in those moments as much. Mm-hmm. You know, it could be a sci-fi reason, it could be, uh, a more mystical, fanciful, you know, kind of magical reason where somehow our thoughts are altering reality or the fabric of, of, or the, uh, nature of gravity.
Um, like quantum mechanics or something. Yes, sure. Yeah. That's, that's the thing. Um, the observer effect. I. Okay, sure. Yeah, fine. Um, I mean, you can hash out the science, but again, the more interesting piece here at the moment, I think, or the more, the more central piece to how enjoyable this is, is this person's journey.
Mm-hmm. So where does he end up? Where does this person end psychologically? I think if, if
Steve: you're gonna really follow the metaphor all the way, then he ends up being grounded. He, he gets back the things that he lost his success at the end in whatever field he, he was successful in. That's the
Jason: part of his kinda, so he's floating away, he's wrestling with his ability to affect change.
In the world. And now with gravity, uh, his own life and also I guess in the world as reflected by gravity. And then he's getting higher and at times he's coming back down at other times. But on average, higher and higher, representing the increased risk, the escalation of risk. And then ultimately this character embraces his own ability to affect change.
Mm-hmm. And that what bring that leads him to grab ahold of something or literally, I. Reconnect with the surface of a building like the, the roof of a building and his feet now stay planted because he's determined and he's no longer viewing himself as, you know, a leaf in the wind, right? Like I'm mm-hmm.
Uh, the, the mercy of forces that I can't control, or is that, that's a very specific cultural set of beliefs, if that's where it ends. Yeah.
Steve: Yeah, it would be. I wonder how you'd illustrate that though. I just had this idea that what if this whole thing happened in reverse so that there's the mystery, so it starts out with him floating.
So as he's floating, then the story gets told in reverse, like, how did he end up in this situation? And then there's a resolution that brings him back down. So you go, he's floating in the beginning. You start telling the story, you come back to that, and then he comes back down for whatever reason, something's resolved within that time span.
Okay?
Jason: So then if he's floating upwards, you can have him having conversations. With people. Right. Not people who are floating, but like, he has a phone. Mm-hmm. Uh, and he has, you know, earbuds or whatever, and so he's called someone and that action that, you know, taking initiative, he, he's, he goes up slower, right.
It slows him down. Mm-hmm. And he's co he's having conversations with this person and then, you know, maybe that person, they're, they lose battery. And that person, you know, is now like running up stairs and, and they're having a conversation where that person's yelling out the window and he's just far enough away and maybe there's some attempts but to throw him things, but he doesn't even really grab them.
Uhhuh, who he doesn't grab, hold on very hard. And the person runs up a couple more flights and is yelling down and like the course, what you're describing happens over the course of those conversations, however they occur. And then at a final point, our, our main character embraces his ability to affect change.
And then he's grounded, is what you're saying? Mm-hmm. Like you want is, is that what you mean? Or do you want him to wrestle with it on his own?
Steve: I don't think he really. Can effectively wrestle with it on his own without having these interactions with somebody else. I don't think it would be as, as entertaining.
And maybe the thing he's dealing with is something that he wasn't able to do, someone he wasn't able to save, and he's battling guilt over that some event that kind of grounds this whole story.
Jason: Ah, so it's, it's revealed that. This. He started on this path. He lost his will to affect change in his own life because he couldn't of an event, couldn't see somebody.
Yes. Or a series of events, and then he wrestles with it as he's floating away. I. Uh, you could even have another person who's experiencing the same phenomenon and they're conversing and have him come to a realization that allows him to land or to, you know, reconnect with gravity and the other person, not the other person accepting.
You know, or, or passively, uh, refusing to acknowledge that they have, they can affect change. Like there's a, there's a median point. There's a balance. Yeah. I don't know, but yeah, I think that's the key to this story, if you're gonna make it a short
Steve: film. Yeah. It's a, it's a tricky short film in the sense that it's one event that's happening, so.
And the way I imagined it is that it happens at the end when I originally thought about it. Mm-hmm. And I actually thought about it, one version where you don't actually know if he ends up floating away. Like this whole whole concept of like gravity disappearing is kind of left hanging at the end. Kind of like the, uh, what is it, like the top that they spin at the end of inception?
Does it fall or keep going? Right. So like, He jumps for some reason and he may, he stays in the air a little bit longer or maybe he didn't uhhuh that kind of representative of like that was real what he was thinking about. The other idea was that he starts noticing that gravity isn't working correctly and like you're kind of wondering like, is this guy insane or is this actually not working?
And then it leads into this path at the end where it doesn't work for him or does it, which was like this question mark vending for a short film.
Jason: I like that for a short film cuz it dodges my problem. I tried to trap you in a conceptualization. I'm realizing that was unnecessary. Since it's a short film, if the character wrestles with something.
And it is left unresolved. That's okay. Because audiences of short films typically are very tolerant of walking away thinking like mm-hmm. It's, you know, it's more about art than it is about having three acts. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I think you're totally right. Yeah. That works really well. It's just a thought provoking piece where maybe, you know, as the audience, uh, steps away from it or turns off YouTube or whatever they're, they're left thinking a little bit about and what.
What do you want them to think about? Because I, I keep throwing stuff out, but I think you're, you're on maybe a better path with this than I, than I'm trying to force it on. Do you
Steve: wanna be left with this sense of things aren't really working the way you think they work. There's certain laws and, and the way that life actually works is different than what you think.
And on a very, very basic level. Right. And in this case, when I first thought about it, it was this idea that he's floating away, right? That's like the metaphor for like him wanting to disappear, but really if you, you can take it in the direction where if he notices things aren't operating the way that he wants 'em to, can he actually take advantage of that, so to speak?
And can, can he defy the law of gravity? Like these things that he's seeing around them are kind of defying that law and he can kind of disappear. Mm-hmm. But by having this open ended, Ending. I really was thinking along the lines, is this something that I could actually make when I first thought of it, like what would be a high concept thing that you could do without having to have special effects in it?
And it wasn't like the things floating around him, it was the ending where he actually floats away. And that was like the original seed of this.
Jason: Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's, but it, it gets very metaphysical and very open-ended, so it becomes more abstract art where people project meaning onto it.
Mm-hmm. My tendency is to provide interpretations or imply them mm-hmm. So that people can, you know, work from a base mm-hmm. And see more in it if they choose to or if they're able to, um, maybe even more than I saw in it. But I think your style is more open-ended, like this is what happened, and it's surreal and you do whatever you want with that.
Right. Right. Yeah. And I think that's, that's a great style. I think that works. Then it's very much about the visuals, it's about the subtleties of the acting. It's about even things like lighting can be very significant in, in that, and you know, the presence or absence of sound or music. Those things all become.
More significant. Mm-hmm. Um, because you're trying to trigger a reaction in somebody where they're basically, it's derealization, right? They're disconnected from their own sense of reality. Not in an aggressive questioning way, but in almost like a way like they're floating. Yeah. Right. So I think that works.
I think that's really cool. And that's a neat idea. It's difficult to capture, I mean, the editing too, like so many elements of it need to combine to trigger derealization for, you know, in the audience. It's really challenging. It's uh, yeah, I mean, it's been done though. I mean, it can, it can be done for sure.
And it's not expensive. It's time consuming. It's
Steve: not expensive. Yeah. It's time consuming. And you could literally do it. As a series of flashbacks that kind of represent his journey until that one point. Mm-hmm. To the point where you realize he wants gravity to kind of stop working for him. Mm-hmm. Like get him to that point, like you're having these flashbacks of maybe things going wrong, him with his family or with a woman, or whatever it might be.
But yeah, you could actually have it be a silent film. Which is just driven by music and visuals. And then the end is where there's that floating scene that I'm talking about where you're not quite sure. Was this all in his head in the first place, or was this actually happening and now he actually got what he wanted?
Right. But you actually don't know because of the way it's edited. Right. Where he stays kind of lifted longer than he should, you
Jason: know? Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's where. The acting, the body posture, the facial expressions. So, so, so important to leave the audience in the place you want them to be. Mm-hmm.
Where if they've embraced. The metaphysical in their life, or they are experiencing a form of derealization or depersonalization in that moment that his elevation of the characters, uh, the character being a loft triggers. A real physical sensation in them and they go with that. Whereas other people might just think, well, I'm uncomfortable with that.
I, in my mind, he needs to land. And he does. Mm-hmm. And so that's interesting and telling. Um, so there's so much left unsaid in that version of it. And, and so much is up to the audience.
Steve: He might actually travel to a specific place where it's been said that, you know, gravity doesn't exist here. Every once in a while or every certain amount of years, or whatever it is.
Mm-hmm. And he could, you could show that visually, like him doing the research into this phenomenon.
Jason: Ah, see, now you're grounding it again though. Is that what you want? Do you want it partially grounded? In logic,
Steve: it, it could be partially grounded, but it's so far fetched to begin with this idea that it, that gravity doesn't, that it like maybe it is, it is something where, you know, it's kind of like, you know, the legend of the sword and the stone or the fountain of youth or whatever, and you kind of ground it around that concept and he has to kind of.
He travels to this place and let's say it's like a completely innocuous place right near him. Like it's at a park, right? Mm-hmm. Some place that's not, that doesn't really look like anything. And once he gets there, that's where the scene that I'm talking about. Happens. So you're not sure if it was like, if this is total bullshit, if it's real.
So it kind of becomes like his, his journey into kind of getting to that place based on these flashbacks that you've shown the audience of like things not working out the way that they should have worked out for him. Kind of creating that character and then at the end, is there a resolution or maybe not, and it's just wishful thinking on his part.
He really wants this to be true. But you never really know, like, is this a legendary place? Is this a real thing or is it just completely made up? And he's,
Jason: you know, really See, I, I, I love that and I like what you're doing. I. I, as an audience member for that, would want to know what his choice was, and if he goes to this place and he's up in the air a little too long and I don't know, then I would assume he chose to give up.
Like he's basically abandoning. Life or his life, however you want to think of it, or his own sense of ability to fix things, right? Or his belief in himself, right? He's abandoned that and it either worked or it didn't. That's the question. I think a more interesting question for just me speaking solely for myself is.
Did he, what did he choose? Did he wrestle with, like in the process of going to this place? Right. Fa flashbacks have told us where his head is. Mm-hmm. And then he goes to this place. I would want to know, did he, is he past the point where he's given up and so he's just gonna float away? Or is he still wrestling with, or has he decided to turn back or to stay grounded and, and embrace life?
And his own ability to make change. It's a very different choice or, uh, point of consternation, I guess. You know, it's, it's a, it's a very different question to leave the audience with.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a, it's a good question. You could have two endings really for this. Does he give up? You'd
Jason: have to have, you could have four.
Yeah. Like does he, is, is the question at the end that he's making, he's making a choice to give up or not give up, or is the question that this will work or won't work? He'll float away or
Steve: he won't. He's driven by curiosity or is he just giving up and he's using this as a Right. Yeah. That's another, that's a way to escape, right?
I don't know.
Jason: It's, this is almost one of those ones where you, you write it and you find out the ending when you get there. Mm-hmm. Or you film it, you know, you write it one way and you film it, and just by observing the actors and even the space when you film it, maybe you just get a different feel for what ending works best.
Yeah, you, you'd almost have to discover that one. Maybe even in the editing, you know, you just shoot it different ways and then you just look at it in the editing and see which one creates a, a consistent sensation in you as you observe it. And it
Steve: could just be like looking in that direction could be the end, right?
Mm-hmm. To kind of show that he's like headed that way. Yeah. Or he takes a step towards that area. I mean, there's a lot of ways to look at this. As he turns around, you don't see him anymore, you
Jason: know? Well, he's holding on and he either lets go or he doesn't. Yeah. And you don't know. You know, it's kind of interesting.
He's like barely holding the railing or something and it just with like a few fingers and it's like you see fingers twitch. Mm-hmm. And then it cuts. And you don't know, did he, does that mean he was gonna grab hold with his fist and pull back, or does that mean he was letting go? Yeah, and then I, I mean, there's so many ways, I don't know.
Yeah. This is something you'd have to explore multiple ways. It's,
Steve: it's, I think an, it's an idea that kind of lends itself to a whole bunch of different scenarios. Like there's so many ways to go with it. If you have it as a short film, you can have what we just talked about, and I'm sure there's a lot of different ways to explore that, that we haven't even talked about.
You could have it, you know, longer as a movie. You can almost even have it as a series, right? Like this Oh, I mean, yeah. Mystery.
Jason: Sure. Yeah. Oh, you're discovering he has a magic liability or the universe is falling apart and it could be a series of, you know, and they all have, everybody has to go to a wizarding school.
You know? I mean, there's so many ways. It's a conspiracy, right?
Steve: It's a conspiracy where this, like advanced tech civilization has created this
Jason: sure framework, right? A hundred percent. There's so many ways you could go, but I, I really like the short film version, at least as one exploration of this concept because it really challenges people.
Like that's the point of it, right? I I, in my mind, yeah. If, if this were me, if you know, I know you're sort of, you have your own vision and this is your project. If you suddenly floated off the earth and I was in charge of production, I would want to think what is the most. Challenging place that I can, you know, or the place I can put an audience member where they feel the most fundamentally challenged.
Mm-hmm. Where their perspective or some fundamental aspect of their perspective, some belief they have, is pressured. So that it's a little bit like asking people if a tree falls in the forest and no one's there to hear. It doesn't make a sound like you want to activate that. I, I would want to activate that mindset in them where they're sort of questioning something about their own choices or their own engagement with reality for just a second, and then leave them in a place where that's not resolved.
Steve: The really challenging part is having it not be really cliche when you're building out the character. And there has to be one moment in this short film where it's really easy for the audience to recognize what is this big choice that he had to make, or what mistake did he make that's kind of leading him on this journey.
And that's a tricky thing to do cuz you have to explain, you know, this place that has no gravity. Why does he start researching this in the first place? Does he overhear someone saying something earlier on in the film? Is it something brochure that he picks up somewhere? Is it, you know? Right. Where is this coming from?
You know, you just Googled it. No gravity spot
Jason: near me. Some YouTube channel, right? Yeah. Guy's like throwing stuff in there and it's floating away, but yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know, I, I think you're right. There's a lot of artistry in this, which is why it's more manageable as a short film, I think. May, maybe that in fact a shorter time, uh, maybe makes it have to be tighter and it, it increases the difficulty.
But I still think it, it works great as a short film. I think that's, that's a fun version of it. Again, there are lots of other ways to go, but I think as an aur your vision would be key here.
Steve: Yeah. I think it's something that could be doable. You know, it's like something that, like a concept that's a high concept idea, I think, but that's, Visually doesn't have to be overly complicated mm-hmm.
In terms of special effects or anything like that. Cause the whole, the whole journey is to get it to that one point in that big question mark at the end. Like what does he, what does he decide? It's really like a, a movie about, or a short film about a journey, not really the actual destination. It's more like a, a metaphor, the idea that you're floating away, cuz that could be anything.
Jason: Right. No, it's definitely a metaphor. Uh, and maybe a couple of them. Yeah. Okay. So I think that's, that's enough to get the ball rolling. But what are the questions that we need the audience to answer? I think we
Steve: need to figure out the one pivotal event in his life that has. Led him to start going on this journey in the first place.
And I think it has to be pretty significant. Mm-hmm. And really strong to kind of crown it and really quickly in the movie. Mm-hmm. Or else it's gonna get very confusing to what he's actually doing. I kind of see it like him not being able, able to save somebody so he's riddled with guilt over it. But say somebody, how is it he?
Is it someone who's like overdosed? Does he find his wife overdose? So like you can kind of imply that he was trying to help them. You know what I mean? So it becomes more of a, oh, this is, this is why this guy is like this. It's not just him going to find this spot. So it makes his choice so much more
Jason: important, I think.
I think what you want. If I understand correctly is you want an event, so you want the audience to suggest an event that creates such a fundamental conflict inside of this person. Mm-hmm. That he is then driven in the direction of contemplating literally floating away. Mm-hmm. Like he is on the verge of.
Self annihilation. Like who he has lost such a grip on who he is. Mm-hmm. And his sense of being able to control things that are important to him in his life, or manage things that are important to him in his life or his life now seems so. Different. Mm-hmm. Like his future seems so without purpose or hope.
So what is an event that could trigger that conflict itself? Yes,
Steve: exactly. Like does he leave? No. Does he leave the stove on and like there's an explosion or something like, I know it's pretty dramatic, but something that you could, so
Jason: No. No. It could work if somebody had OCD and they had a long history of intrusive thoughts about harming others.
By after making a mistake like that, like leaving a door unlocked or mm-hmm. You know, leaving a stove on or the oven or something, and then that actually happened and then that so unmoored them. Mm-hmm. Because it was the exact thing that they had convinced themselves was. Not something they needed to worry about, like they were just intrusive thoughts.
They weren't real concerns or fears or dangers and that it happened, or, I don't know. I mean, there's, I don't, I don't, this is, this is gonna be so subjective. I would actually be curious what people think would trigger this in someone. Yeah. Such a fundamental conflict. Especially if that person was not as you're suggesting, not already.
Headed in that direction. You're not saying a sequence of events gradually triggered this or a lifetime of certain things, and role models have led them to this place. You're saying this is someone who was grounded and some event occurred. Yes. And it created such an internal conflict that they have literally lost touch with the ground.
Yes,
Steve: exactly. And I think for a short especially, it needs to be one thing. It can't be this gradual progression. I mean, it could be a gradual progression, but you need a really long set of montages in order to show this right
Jason: montage.
Steve: Right. And it doesn't, I don't know. It has to be something that you kind of think of, right?
And say, oh, oh yeah, that makes perfect sense and now we can move on to this other part of his
Jason: journey. Yeah. And I think it's more interesting. I think it's more interesting that way. It's dramatic. It's interesting. It punctuates a short film with a, a really intense. So, yes, but what is that event? And that's a really interesting idea.
I think if everybody listening pauses and goes to the kind of dark place that you know, you love dark everything and you try to turn all my ideas into dark things, so I'm gonna do it to you, they go to the dark place of asking themselves what would do that to me? You know? Then maybe that's the answer.
Why don't we just turn it into a buddy comedy then? Yeah. I was gonna ask you who the funny sidekick is. So does this guy who's floating away have some sort of mercenary skills? Was he formerly in the cia? Does he kill billionaires? For those of you
Steve: that listen to the other podcast,
Jason: You know the one, yeah, the singular.
You. What do you think, mom? Yeah, exactly. Hi Mark.
Just text me when you get this, for those of you listening. Singular. Yeah, singular. You. Oh man. No, this is great. I love this. This is a great idea. It's very different. Uh, I like the way you tackled it. I also love that it's doable and I think. 10 people could make this film. And in just going off of what we said, like sticking to that and you could get 10 very different experiences and that in itself would be art.
So I think that's very interesting. Yeah, I,
Steve: I think it's something that if you really, really thought it through and had every single scene really convey that message. Of loss or this particular event that he would have something pretty tight. I think it's something that could be a 10 minute short film.
Mm-hmm. Like it had, could have that really limited time span to tell the whole story. Mm-hmm. If you kind of put it together in the right way.
Jason: Well, but the audio commentary from us would be like three hours. That's, so you have to loop the 10 minutes for three full hours while we talk. Every
Steve: 15 seconds.
Jason: We pause it and then we, we, we just pause it or we talk through 10 minutes and then it'd be us talking for another two and a half hours with just a black screen.
Steve: There's no filler.
Jason: It's like a three DVD set, like almost all of it is just us talking with the
Steve: bonus. The bonus director's cut, which is just black screen.
Jason: Yeah, the director's. Your director's cut. It's two minutes, but with an extra four hours of commentary.
Steve: The comedic commentary and the more serious commentary. That's right, the alternate endings that weren't
Jason: filmed, the theme songs that we didn't record,
Steve: the backstory of the character told in five different perspectives. The
Jason: side talking hedgehog pat was really key. The event. The first place. Yeah. We cut it all out.
It's animated cartoon sidekick. This parakeet dies and that's what kicks this whole thing up. The zombie attack in the middle. That's great.
Steve: But yeah, that's good
Jason: stuff. This is really good. Thanks for bringing
Steve: it. Yeah, no worries. Thanks for talking it through. I mean, it went in a completely different direction than I was.
Originally thinking, and at least that simplified version of him just walking and floating away. Mm-hmm. I think this is, this is pretty strong, I think for a short, yeah. There's like a pretty strong resolution and not a resolution, but an ending that. Would make you think if everything else is
Jason: set up correctly, there's a package here.
But I definitely think what ends up being the final product, like even what you're trying to, what, you know, quote unquote trying to say as an artist, depends on what you have at the end of the day in the can and what you can edit and then, oh yeah, what you like out of that mess. You know? It would be completely
Steve: different than whatever you write.
It's completely done in the editing. Yeah. And the ending could be totally different mm-hmm.
Jason: Than what you, than what you expect. I mean, just half a second difference in when you cut just the presence of a sound. Mm-hmm. At the end, like anything like that with this version could radically alter whether people got where you wanted them to be or not.
You know, and of course some people are gonna have really negative reactions to it just because of what it is. Mm-hmm. Some people are gonna love it because they're gonna take it in different ways in their mind. Like if it's not, if you don't even attempt to explain the science fiction elements of it, then some people who are metaphysically inclined, you know, spiritual, not religious and things like that, those people are gonna embrace it.
Just because it's different and it doesn't force that science explanation, you know? Yeah. So anyway, this, I think it's, it's really cool. It's an exciting idea. Alar in large part, because it's doable. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: It's definitely doable. Especially doing it the way that we, we discussed,
Jason: you know, with the hedgehog, with
Steve: the hedgehog, the parakeet.
Jason: It's like,
Steve: um, what is that Jim Carney movie?
Jason: Ace Ventura. Detective. It's
Steve: a pet detective with a metaphysical spin.
Jason: All righty then. All
Steve: right.
Jason: All righty, then Bumble Be tuna.