In this episode, our hosts launch their new Treat Williams-themed streaming service and try to break an original story idea about a pilot who murders billionaires. As they dive into this story, they'll be discussing the character motivations, the potential obstacles their protagonist may face, and how many ninjas it would take to stop Steven Seagal. So sit down, buckle up, and join them on a creative journey as they try to break this intriguing story idea before their last remaining engine bursts into flames.
In this episode, our hosts launch their new Treat Williams-themed streaming service and try to break an original story idea about a pilot who murders billionaires. As they dive into this story, they'll be discussing the character motivations, the potential obstacles their protagonist may face, and how many ninjas it would take to stop Steven Seagal. So sit down, buckle up, and join them on a creative journey as they try to break this intriguing story idea before their last remaining engine bursts into flames.
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Jason: And then the next thing you know, there's just blood all over the inside of the cabin and there's nobody flying the
Steve: plane. But it turns out at the end you realize that they were all working to not have him ever be found in their own way.
Jason: Oh, that'd be awesome. Some guy would take a cigar out of his mouth and go, I love it.
I love it. Print it.
Welcome to the podcast where we talk about the big ideas behind fiction projects of all different kinds. Books, movies, TV shows, video games, nothing's off limits. Today the guys are doing another story break episode where they pitch and workshop one of their original ideas. We hope, oh, hold on. Looks like they've already started.
Yep. Okay, they're talking. All right. Here we go. Every second. Yep. Get your monster soda. Yep. Sit there all night. And it's an all nighter, baby plugging, unplugging wires.
Steve: Why isn't this working?
Jason: Running spools. I got this, this, I got this. Have you ever
Steve: seen the dj, uh, dead mouse? Like he has this set in his, in his place.
Uhhuh. Like if you YouTube it, you should be able to find it. Cuz I took his masterclass. Cause I was just curious like how he makes that music. Uhhuh, it's like a multimillion dollar setup that he just has at his house. Exactly like what you're saying. Ah, there's wires running into, wires running into all these decks and keyboard.
I don't even know how you would set this thing up and like, it would probably take like a team of technicians like a week to actually like set it up in your house and then figuring out what to do with all that shit. I'm like, very impressive. Dead mouse. This is, this is something, this isn't like my MacBook Pro trying to download a plugin, you know, it's like an entire orchestra and like sound mixing studio in your house.
It was pretty,
Jason: he, he sounds like the, uh, Peewee Herman of music, you know, like pee peewee making breakfast, you know, with the egg rolling down Uhhuh, what are those called, those machines? Uh, mousetraps. I don't know. No,
Steve: they have a name for, like, something that's overly complicated. Mm. Jason. And you make it, it's adjacent, an overly complicated.
Human machine
Jason: that makes a big mess. Completely unnecessary. Yeah, exactly. Clean doesn't really serve the purpose. And he was just trying to fry an egg and that was, which he doesn't eat exactly, and then not talk about dead heat. We'll have to do that next episode. We'll have to do that. Yeah, I haven't had a chance to re-watch it recently.
Steve: I would like to watch that. Let me write that down in my my to-dos.
Jason: Dead heat. Dead heat. Now if I die
Steve: and someone finds my diary, they'll know. They'll be like, what is dead heat? It'll be like Rosebud and citizen. I'm gonna just write Dead Heat Movie with Joe Piscopo. No Hidden
Jason: meaning
exactly what it sounds like. Looking to waste some of my time.
Steve: Dead heat. What was he doing? What was he thinking of doing? We're on it,
Jason: boss. We could also talk about Treat Williams. And his amazing career. Would you really want to do that
Steve: though? Well, I, is there a reason to,
Jason: are you saying Cause there's so many great films, it's too much.
Oh, which Treat Williams are you talking about? Isn't he the, uh, CoStar? Am I getting his name? Yeah. I'm just joking. It's,
Steve: it's probably only one Treat Williams the one, only Trees Treat Williams. If you hear me Treat Williams. No, no.
Jason: I know there's only one of you. It needs its own podcast, I guess. Treat Williams podcast.
Treat Williams pod, we call it. Um, starring not treats You for the treats. Sweet Treats. Sweet Treats. Yeah. Sweet Treat Williams podcast. Yeah, we can do season one on Deep Rising, I think probably is Finest film
Steve: or his only film. How many movies has Treat Williams been?
Jason: Oh, are you kidding me? We need a research.
Are you drunk? Did you hit your head? Did this podcast, write that down. Re Williams has been in more movies than you can count to. Wow. So like he's a massive star, or at least 11. You know, when you think about like the human backbone, it supports so much. You don't always see it, but you know it's there.
Treat Williams has done so many movies that he is like the human backbone of Hollywood. He's in so many important pieces. He's the connective tissue. He's, he's the collagen, as the kids would say. Yeah, the kids. It's a little cliche, but Yeah. If you want to be hip and street, he's the collagen yo. And Deep Rising is probably his best movie in my, it's, that's not true.
It's one of my favorites. Deep Rising was the, uh, it's aliens on a cruise ship. It's a real treat. You would say. That's the name of the podcast. It's a real treat. It's a real treat. Parentheses, you would say season one, dead Heat and Deep Rising. All right, so it's time again for story break. Treat
Steve: Williams the actor.
I put it in my. Oh,
Jason: okay. My journal. Before we get the story break, we gotta make sure, let's clear this all up. You got an organized and planned Treat Williams movie film, binge festival. Is there like a special streaming service for Treat Williams, do you think? Uh, yeah. Treat
Steve: Williams plus, I think,
Jason: Little treat and chill.
Treat plus,
Steve: oh, if no one listens to this podcast, I've enjoyed
Jason: it. I just wanna let you know. Good. All right. Off to a great start. And we haven't even gotten to story break, which we're gonna do now,
Steve: and what's that story break
Jason: jingle again? It's time for story break. Story break. Couple of idiots are gonna take you on a wild ride through an amazing story, and they're gonna drive it into the ground just like this theme.
And No Bill Cosby. And No Bill Cosby. Great. Now that we got
Steve: that out of the way,
Jason: okay. I think every week we should take a shot at the theme. Just fail. Oh man. And this can get more and more elaborate. I love it. The pitch this week very different than previous ones, so I'm thinking this is gonna be much more of a dark drama.
All right, so it's story about a professional pilot. He has his own private jet and he flies wealthy, famous people, you know, people, anyone who can afford to pay to rent it. For him to fly them one place to another. Right. So that's kind of the premise is like every episode I'm thinking TV show, it doesn't have to be, but every episode he has like a different wealthy or famous person who's booked a flight and he flies them wherever they want to go.
So traveling all over the country, maybe Mexico, maybe Canada, like North America, but he just has this plane and he arranges to store it where he goes and people pay him and flies around. Oh, and he also sometimes RINs out seats for people to come in and take pictures for social media, or if they want to do like a party on a private jet, but while it's in the hanger or on the runway, if he can arrange that and stuff like that.
So this is kind of his gig. He's also a killer, but he only kills billionaires. So he is flying around, he's doing all this stuff, interesting people, and he only kills billionaires. So what do you think so far? Is there something there?
Steve: I think there could be. Yeah. I like where, where would you go with that?
I have a lot of questions as to why does he kill billionaires? I don't know if he would have to establish that early or whether later on in this series or mini series or whatever you wanna do with it. If you find out that that's the one thing that they have in common, but is it just the fact that they're billionaires?
Are they in a specific industry? Are they finance guys for some reason? Or they're industrialists that have done something to him or his family? There's a good chance or a good opportunity to have a lot of backstory with it, but I think maybe just the fact that they're billionaires is too broad. It would be interesting to niche it down more than that, cuz you're assuming anyone who's on these jets is rich, whether they're a millionaire or a billionaire.
Right. Is that, is that gonna drive the plot forward? Like what are you thinking about in terms of that? Like why the billionaire premise as opposed to just a rich guy?
Jason: Okay, so the question is why? Why does he kill? And you were saying there's different types of billionaires, let's just to stick with billionaires for now.
Yeah. Cuz millions not as much as it used to be. Mm-hmm. So there's different types of billionaires and. Why he kills which ones can be tied to that. My original idea was that he doesn't know why he does it. And the audience doesn't know why he does it. Now that listening to you, I'm thinking maybe in hindsight there is a pattern and it ultimately ties to the explanation.
Mm-hmm. Does that make sense? Mm-hmm. So maybe there's something that he was reacting to that was there all along that isn't obvious for maybe the first season or two. Like obviously everybody, the first question is, why is he killing billionaires? Why? Mm-hmm. I think the one way to go is answer that early.
And just say, okay, yeah, he's doing it for this reason, but another way to go is he doesn't know. And he finds out over the course of the series and the audience finds out. And I thought, if you do that, or if we do that with the story, then it's really important to anticipate all the questions, all the complaints that people like audience members would have based on not knowing.
Why he's doing this or not being told, and then heading them off, trying to head them off in the story by addressing them either explicitly or, or subtly, you know, so that it kind of renders the question less important. Does that make sense? Yeah, I see what you're saying. So I think you could do that.
Steve: Yeah, I think you could pull that off.
I'm just wondering if it would be something that you haven't seen before, is the fact that this pilot has so much access. Like something I've never really seen is like in every movie you see or every show, whenever a billionaire is flying private, the pilot is like an afterthought, right? It's just someone who, who's like a chauffeur who can't hear what's going on right in
Jason: the cabin.
And that's one of the things that contributes to him getting away with this.
Steve: Go ahead. I was gonna say, what if he had installed listening devices in this cabin so he's able to blackmail these guys. Interesting. And that becomes like a, that adds like a whole new layer of complexity to the plot. You see him flying with one of these guys in an episode or when it starts?
Mm-hmm. And then you see him kind of taking all these steps, but you don't know what he's doing, like where these things are connected. Okay. But it's all based on the conversation that he heard, or conversations that he's heard. From the cabin, right? So he's blackmailing this guy or setting this elaborate kind of trap where he can, has like some kind of financial gain from it.
Okay? And he's able to kill this guy at the end cuz that could be a movie I would think. You know, cuz he kind of takes this, the pilot, you could even have it where you don't even know that it's the pilot who's doing this, like ruining this guy's life. You know? Oh, it's interesting. It's just part of what this guy's doing in day to day.
Like you see him flying around. He's got chauffeurs. He's got bodyguards, he's got this and that. Like he's
Jason: under contract with this guy. No, it's just one face in a crowd is what you're saying.
Steve: Yeah. He's just one face in a crowd. But yeah, even the pilot could be hired by his like, Enemy, and maybe this guy is like some kind of ex-military pilot.
He has some kind of special training, but it turns it more into like a, a spy type of thriller. Maybe something along intrigue along those lands. Yeah,
Jason: yeah. Like corporate intrigue kind of a thing.
Steve: Yeah. Where he's being, this guy's being blackmailed, all these things are falling apart in his life. Like these big deals that he had going aren't going anymore, and the way they're falling apart is like a lot more complicated.
And little by little you start finding out. It's the pilot who's been
Jason: doing this whole thing. So it's like a, who done it? You turned it into like a mystery who done it, but, but isn't it more who hired the pilot
Steve: at that point? I think it's who hired the pilot, but I mean, if this guy's a recurring character, it can be like, you know, this pilot has this military background.
He's a killer, he's a hired killer. Kinda like a mercenary. Why is he doing what he's doing? Mm-hmm. Maybe there's a backstory there that he has like a certain reason for being in this position where he's trying to get to some. Top guy or one specific guy, but along the way he's kind of getting rid of these other guys that he's being contracted
Jason: with.
Oh, okay. Wait, so in that version, the pilot is the main character. The clients that hire him to fly, he's working his way through them to some sort of end goal that we don't know until he reaches it. Yeah, I think, is that where you're going with that? Yeah.
Steve: I was going more toward that like born identity.
Like he doesn't know who he is, but he's doing all these things and he's being kind of controlled. But I see the way that you're looking at in terms of like he's murdering these billionaires.
Jason: Well, but building on what you were saying. Yeah. Not to interrupt, but just what you were just saying, the way I was thinking about this character, there's a lot of complexity with him.
I thought he might be addicted to drugs. As well. And so he's this pilot and he looks, he's a, you know, professional jet pilot and he looks all put together and he needs to present himself that way, but he's addicted to drugs and he's killing clients and just use, taking advantage of the track that he does to like dispose of bodies and covers tracks.
But it's often done. Either while he's under the influence of a substance or it's not as premeditated from his point of view, but then it's executed in kind of a premeditated way. And so for me, the struggle of this character and the audience to understand him would be around control. Like there'd be like a running theme of control.
So whether it's drugs, like is he losing control? Is he trying to use them to control himself? You know, flying the plane. It can be about control, like the way he kills people can be about control. And so that opens up a lot of hypotheses about why he's choosing these particular people, and you can explore that over time.
And maybe the audience won't be so frustrated that you didn't open by explaining his motivation. Right. Does that make sense?
Steve: Yeah, it does. Are you seeing it where he, little by little, he starts falling apart as he's doing this job? Like you see him kind of Yeah, yeah, yeah. On a more put together. First, he's trying to hold it together, but there's like a series of incidents, the way they're treating him, things are making him do his interactions with these guys where he decides to do.
Something more extreme, like what I was saying, where he like bugs the cabin. Mm-hmm. And maybe after one of those flights, when that billionaire guy, if we were gonna move in that direction, like his life starts falling apart. The billionaire guy. Mm-hmm. And he realizes the only person that it could be is his pilot.
So then he goes back on the plane at one point and he figures out that the cabin's bugged. So like some kind of struggle ensues and the pilot kills. His passenger and now he has to get rid of him. But how do you get rid of a billionaire? And that becomes like the dilemma
Jason: of the movie. I like that.
Something you said a minute ago I think is better or fits nicely into what I was thinking and also what you were just saying. If the series is about control and he's unraveling over the course of the season, you know, assuming it gets one season, right, let's just say it gets however many episodes, one season maybe it starts off and he has no history of a lot of these things.
Like maybe he know he's had some brushes with substances or something like that, but he's well put together, you know, what you would expect or want from a pilot, and then something happens in the pilot. Maybe it's what you're saying. And we watch him unravel. He can't always predict what he's gonna do and where he's gonna go, and he finds himself unraveling and wrestling with control of himself and his life.
And sometimes the plane polish forward thinking and planning. Being meticulous and executing a like a flight plan, essentially. Mm-hmm. Versus the other side, which is slowly falling apart. Not understanding why you're unraveling mentally doing things, or finding yourself in situations where you're doing things that are inconsistent with how you make sense of yourself.
Mm-hmm. But then trying to pull it back together and then sort of succeeding, but then being disrupted again and just. Back and forth, and that could even be visualized by his control of the plane in different circumstances. Yeah. I see where you're at. And it could start with a murder, like you were saying, where he found himself in a situation where he killed someone.
And had to figure out how to dispose of a billionaire's body and cover his tracks without even realizing that's what he was gonna do. Mm-hmm. You know, he didn't intend to kill him, but then didn't, you know, he thought about turning himself in but didn't, and before he knew it, he'd already taken the steps to cover his tracks or just pushed his body out of the planet.
Steve: Yeah. Whatever. And then whatever. Just jump into the next episode. Yeah. But I really like this cuz I could see this being a movie. Okay. And I could clearly see it being a series as a movie that simplify that plot down where this like pivotal incident where he ends up killing this billionaire, becomes the whole crux of the whole thing.
Right. And the race is on. And when he hides the body, I think he's, you know, scot free. Mm-hmm. But there's an elaborate investigation going on behind the scenes to try to figure out who it was. Mm-hmm. It's him trying to keep it together. What's he gonna do? Is he gonna run? Is he not gonna run? Is he gonna get caught?
How's this all gonna go down? And then there's the whole series part where maybe he's a, a pilot, a legitimate pilot, his life is falling apart. He has a drug problem, he has family problems, cuz he can go into all those things now that it's a series, right? Like he has the ex-wife if you want kids, the whole thing, right?
And. Maybe he likes prostitutes on the side. Like there's this whole personal life trauma where he's a legitimate pilot, but he starts stumbling, starts screwing up. Like they start covering up that he was maybe doing drugs or whatever it is, and he starts getting more and more desperate. We have a situation where he realizes that he needs money, not that he hadn't realized before, but he comes to this awakening.
Wait a minute, I've got these super rich guys that I'm flying around. Maybe there's a way for me to make this work for my benefit. He overhears this guy talking on the phone about a way that he could possibly get in on making some money, or there's some deal going on that he could maybe get involved with.
Maybe approaches the guy, the guy's like, I don't know what you're talking about. You know, I'm gonna tell your boss whatever it is. He kills the guy. He then hides the body, but he gets away with it and then the series becomes like he starts getting involved in more and more criminal type of activity.
Kinda like a breaking bad. I like that.
Jason: Let me, let me jump in. What if, building on what you were saying, I. He has these other relationships, but every person in his life is somebody who either wouldn't seem to fit with his pilot polished persona, his like controlled version of himself. Mm-hmm. Or they also have kind of a, a wild side or a broken side.
And so that sort of foreshadows that there's another side to him and I like your idea of him. Hearing something, but I would want to change it a little bit and say it wasn't premeditated like he was flying, he happened to leave the intercom on, or this guy was super loud and like talking right outside the, yeah.
Yeah. Not realizing it's not sound press
Steve: and he's about to say something to him. With the intercom.
Jason: Okay. Yeah. Right, right. Well, I don't think that's intercoms work,
Steve: but Yeah. No, but isn't, couldn't he open it up or whatever? I don't know. I'm not plane.
Jason: Yes. No, no, no. Listen, we're right. We've invented this plane.
It's ama it's whether you can or can't. That's what happened. Right? There's, there's vent. That Bruce Willis would normally crawl through in a diehard situation that goes from the cockpit to the passenger area. You know there's sillier
Steve: plot points, right, than this. Oh yeah. Like he look, he could look up and there's like a vent like in a bathroom, and he's like
Jason: listening to the guy.
Yeah. Yeah. It's DNA controlled. DNA controlled vent
Steve: can tell unless the guy's been shot. Unless he's been shot me. All of you that are listening to this right now, were alluded. It's true. A previous
Jason: episode about No, that is. That is a true fact. You're lying. They should know this. If they don't know this, if you go into a bathroom on a plane and you haven't been shot, then it automatically takes the audio and plays it for the pilot.
That is a feature. Pilots lobbied hard for this. People should know that it has nothing to do with past episodes. I think the people
Steve: should know about the Adam Project though, and oh God, in episode two episodes ago where we take a deep dive into the Adam Project. You've gotta listen to it. Pause this episode.
And
Jason: go listen to it. Or it's the next episode. Cause who knows when we're gonna release these?
Steve: It could be a future episode. It could be a past episode.
Jason: No, I still feel bad about that one because that movie is not that bad. It's fine. I know. It is the definition of fine. Yeah. And
Steve: not like the Was Fine podcast.
Which was a great
Jason: segue. I think the movie was probably better than the podcast. It probably was. It was longer. But
Steve: if you can't afford to see the movie, you can afford to listen to this podcast cause it's free.
Jason: Sorry if you can afford to borrow someone's Netflix password, I still think the barrier for entry on our podcast is probably higher than the Adam Project.
Yeah. So many ways. It's an M four A file. Oh God, you probably can't play back. Yeah. What is it from the iPod? iPod, yeah. It's an, you only listen to it and on an iPod. It's a true podcast. It's a hipster thing. You got, if you don't understand, they don't only play on on a pod iPod, turn your record
Steve: player down so you can hear us all.
Right. And not like, and that was fine podcast, which was a great, so,
Jason: so anyway, yeah, back to. Back to where we were. Right? So he overhears it. And I would love to tweak instead of it being about his financial gain. Cuz I feel like the, I have a lot of bills, so I'm gonna break. Bad story. I don't like that. I don't feel like that's fresh.
What do you think about if he's in the cockpit, he's flying, you know, this person, man, woman, doesn't matter. Or other is going on and on about something. And let's say it's like environmental. It's something terrible. Billionaires have a bad rap these days and it's like maybe he's gonna like shut down unionizing, or like try to make everybody, he's trying to introduce this six day work week, you know?
And he's got an ironclad plan to like push it through Congress or something like that. And so let's say that our pilot and just stay with me. He's flying and he's sweating. Even though it's, you know, calm or what, or maybe it's not, maybe it's a little stormy. Ah, I like that. It's stormy. He's flying this jerk off is yelling about this terrible issue that you know is a bad thing for the environment or children or animals.
And our pilots sweating. There's squawking coming from the radio and the audio is kind of weird, so you're not really sure where all the sounds are coming from. And then the next thing you know, there's just blood all over the inside of the cabin. And there's nobody flying the plane that's cut to the credits for the first episode.
What do you think is that? Just to get the ball rolling. That's has to get the ball rolling. He has to roll it back from there and then maintain that balance between control and whatever's happening. He has to control the narrative. He has to control the plane, he has to control himself, and he's just losing the battle.
What do you think? So we don't
Steve: know what happened. So there's blood everywhere. We don't know what happens. It cuts to a totally different point in time
Jason: with our, well, no, it's say yeah, it's like five minutes later or 20
Steve: minutes later. Oh, okay. Cause I was thinking it would be really cool if it cuts and it's a completely different point in time and then the story kind of like backs into that incident
Jason: itself.
Ooh, okay. Okay. Right. Yeah. I dunno where it's, I like that too. But then we still end up in the same place where we have to pick up where we left off, right? Or are you saying time jump from where?
Steve: Bloody cabin. There's a couple ways to do it. I think you could go the bloody cabin. Incident and then you could say like five years previous.
And then it rolls into that incident and that becomes like the climax of, or part of the climax of the episode or the movie and the resolution to that. There's a cliffhanger and then you go into episode
Jason: two. Oh, okay. Okay. You like a long runway, five years. Let's say
Steve: five minutes. It doesn't matter. No, I mean,
Jason: five hours mean five days, five days, five days.
Five, five years. 15, 50 years. Get a lot of ground to cover. A lot of time jumps. A, a year later it's like a SpongeBob episode. And then I thought, if we're gonna stick with this kind of vibe into the first episode, he's dumped the body, he's cleaned the plane. Seems like he might get away with it. He's good.
He's okay. Like this person he killed was a terrible person. Even the investigators are like, good. You know what I mean? Like they're a little unprofessional and they're like, good, you know?
Steve: Do you hundred percent kill him? Are we sure that he hundred percent did it?
Jason: In my mind, yes, but there's no evidence this person is just vanished.
So I guess you could say no, we're not sure he's dead. But the fact that he disappeared, the investigators retracing his steps and they're like, Okay. Yeah, there's clearly footage of him leaving. We'll figure out how this guy faked that. But let's say, you know, that whatever, the investigator doesn't care, he is being sloppy or something like that because this person was clearly hated in the middle of a controversy and like causing a lot of people grief.
So, and just not a good person. So, or let's say the investigator has something against rich people. He hates the one percenters or something like that, right? Or he is racist or whatever. But for whatever reason, our pilot gets away with it. And it looks like he's gonna get his life back. He's gonna reestablish everything.
And then he gets into drugs at the end and you're like, why is he doing this? And that kind of leads into the question is like, what's happening to this person? Why is he doing this? He doesn't know. Is he gonna pull out of it? Is he gonna pull out of his nose dive, or is he just gonna crash straight into the ground or something else?
And that's what I would want to explore. And by the way, there's an awesome song called How to Fly by a band called Sticky Fingers. Which I think would be perfect for that like last scene or wherever it goes in the story. So what do you think, where does that take
Steve: you? You're talking about he gets into drugs, but he's on the plane still or were you talking about when he's,
Jason: well, yeah, I'm picturing him doing drugs in the cockpit, but like I see, maybe he got another gig and it seems fine.
You gotten away with it. It's the end of the pilot or the whatever part of the film. And we
Steve: don't know where this guy went or how he got rid of this body or anything. No,
Jason: we've seen that. Let's say the previous scenes were all him covering his tracks, like
Steve: landing in some like airport in the middle of nowhere.
Right. Okay. Like an island or something. Maybe he knows the guy who was at that airport.
Jason: Or, yeah, it was a scheduled stop for this particular wealthy person and it just so happens to be like a rinky dink little landing strip. And our pilot happens to know someone there or like the, his stripper he likes is there, whatever, somebody who has some connections and helps him sanitize and fake footage.
Somebody dresses up. Like that person and walks by the cameras or whatever and it's like, okay, well it's an island rich. People go there, they take a boat and they leave all the time and there's been pirate activity or drug lords sometimes get involved and like, oh, you know what? We can tie it to, oh, what's the pedophile island?
You know that guy who had a private island and like Epstein. Yeah, so it's like kind of an Epstein situation where, you know, clearly this wealthy person was going there to do some human trafficking, like kind of activity. You know what I mean? And so like the fact that she, so no one really
Steve: pays attention.
Jason: Yeah, there's a lot of explanations for where he could be. They're not really looking that hard. There's jurisdictional issues. There's other wealthy people who don't want this investigated. And maybe that ties into future murders, where our pilot realizes there's kind of a loophole here where he can get away with it and for reasons he doesn't understand, he's compelled to do it, to keep doing it, and not necessarily to people.
You would think He kills some people that are like doing bad things and other times he seems to kill for reasons that aren't as obvious to the audience. You know what I mean? I'm really clinging to, and maybe I need to kill this darling, but I'm clinging to the idea that. He doesn't understand why he's doing this.
He doesn't see it coming. It's not calculated like you brought up Breaking Bad, which I get, but in Breaking Bad, I feel like Walter discovered that he had this calculating drug, Lord in him. And so he just discovered that partially by accident and partially by choice. And at the end of the series, he pays for this.
But this character I see is totally different. I didn't even think of breaking bad because he's not breaking bad. He's breaking. Mm-hmm. And he's doing bad things sometimes. So it's not discovering that he's efficient, Dexter leg killer, but instead he's confused and lost. And he doesn't know why he's doing these things, but he's clinging to the life.
And this the idea of who he was. He's trying to clinging to that, and he keeps getting away with stuff that he shouldn't normally because he's a pilot and he's flying. And he's traveling and he's smart. Mm-hmm. And maybe he does this blackmail thing to get away with something at one point, and they think it's about the money, but he's covering a murder.
I really think there's a lot of potential to that, but I don't know if it's just
Steve: me. I think there is a lot of potential. I think there's, that's one of the many ways I think that you could take it effectively. What if he's getting blackmailed? So
Jason: what if he wants, you're trying to make him ser than I am.
I think there's a clear distinction, like you want him anchored as a rational person, and I won him. Basically discovering there's psychosis in his family. You know what I mean? Like, no, I
Steve: know we have a different, no clue. We have a different guy here As a main character, it's a very complicated setup. So there's
Jason: so many.
What? What if they're two guys? What if there's a pilot and a copilot? Like season one we pick one and that's who we go with. But maybe season two or the sequel or the other half of the film or whatever, there's a co-pilot. Who is the other version? Who's the special forces person? A training day where you got a psycho.
Okay. Yeah. Training day in the air. It's training day, except neither one of them. Are clear or honest about who they are. So you've got one pilot who's breaking and who's developing psychosis, and the other one who has a secret agenda and a bunch of skills. And so they think that they can help each other or they can work together, or they think they are working together, but in reality, it's not at all what either one of them thinks it is.
Maybe the guy who's. Losing his mental capacity or losing control of his behavior and his thoughts and his persona thinks the other guy is trying to help him stabilize and cover his tracks and like give him another chance and you know, help that side of him that wants control and the other guy thinks that they're working together to like take out.
Whatever his agenda is, like they're killing people and gonna get some massive payout, or they're taking out bad guys
Steve: and the people that go on the plane aren't random people. There's like a reason for them being on the plane. Right, right. That could be something. Okay. Let me finish this one train of thought that I had before.
I forget. So let's say he lands in that rinky dink airport. Mm-hmm. And everything that you had said before happens like, he kills that guy. No one cares at the airport. So he thinks, but then he's getting blackmailed cuz someone did see, okay. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So then he's being manipulated into taking out these other billionaire guys, but we don't know what the big connection is because he is being manipulated by this kind of unseen figure until he like introduces himself as such.
Jason: You see what I mean? I do. This strikes me. You remember that movie
Steve: like Usual Suspects.
Jason: Colin Farrell, I think was in a movie where he answered the phone. Yes. Okay. That what we're talking about. It was also like diehard three. Wasn't that the plot booth of diehard phone booth? Yes. And then diehard three.
That's like a lighter version of what you're saying. I'm, I'm
Steve: sure this is the only difference is
Jason: you are having him blackmail, like someone did something wrong and then he gets pulled into a life of horrible things because he's desperate. To avoid the consequences or because somebody has, is taking advantage of him for one mistake he made basically.
Is
Steve: that right? Yeah. Someone's taking advantage of the fact that he did that and he's in a perfect position to kind of serve this person's needs. Because he's a pilot, because he knows, goes to all these private airports cetera. He gets put in situations or in flight plans of carrying passengers that are the enemies of this particular guy.
He's the guy that's kind of making them disappear and he's doing all this stuff and maybe there's a connection to this island. I don't know. Maybe the whole thing is that they're all guys that are like visiting this particular island. So now he has his kind of private murder or like assassin. On his payroll now, but I like the other idea better.
You do? It seems a little more simplistic.
Jason: No, I mean, I think what you're saying is a popular concept. You asked me why is he killing billionaires. Part of my answer to that question is because right now a lot of people hate billionaires. Mm-hmm. And watching them get killed every week is gonna draw an audience.
Right. So you keep going back to the island. This is very similar to like somebody has to run drugs. For a drug, Lord, they got mixed up with a drug Lord, and they have to drive a Winnebago, you know, across the border from Mexico to Texas Uhhuh, or Texas to Mexico, right? And it's funny, or it's serious and it gets bloody, or it gets hilarious and two people fall in love or whatever.
But that's a popular plot line. And if you add this element of killing, Wealthy people and you make the kills interesting or good, and the person doing it, maybe not super into it, maybe he gets into it over time. Maybe he ends up enjoying it. It accesses a side of him. That's pretty dark, but it is different than the other idea of the focus being on somebody falling apart.
I'm a little more fight club. Yeah. And you're a little bit more what the best prototypical example
Steve: of that is? I mean, I think the phone boot example.
Jason: Okay. Yeah. With Colin. So like regular guy swept up,
Steve: swept up in something bigger than himself and now
Jason: he's, that's pretty dark and Yeah. And he's getting manipulated and he's doing things he never would do normally that are horrible, but he's trying to justify it and the audience is kind of rooting for him.
Steve: Yeah, it's more simplistic, not ping pie numbers type of plot, but like it has a, a clear beginning, middle, and end in terms of like the character development. It's more
Jason: profitable, sellable, yeah. Interesting to studios.
Steve: Yeah, they'd be like, oh, it's like phone booth, but like that Denzel Washington movie where he's a pilot flight or whatever.
So combine those two and there you have it, phone, booth, and flight at the same time. I thought it
Jason: was a train. Wasn't he chasing a train at some point, or is that, I don't know. Those movies all run together.
Steve: Flight, I think is the one where he has a drug problem. Ah. And he ends up landing a plane, but he crashes it and a bunch of people die.
Oh, yeah. He's on drugs. It was pretty good. I mean, he's a great actor, so it makes sense. He doesn't do
Jason: a
Steve: lot of bad movies. No, I like where you're going with that pilot copilot kind of scenario. I like, I like
Jason: that. If, if that were the dynamic, I would love that to keep the concept fresh. After, I was gonna say like season two, but maybe it's, it's fine for like episode three or two even, or well maybe three or four.
Like once you establish this guy, you know who, whichever you start with, then you introduce the other one, I think then it's pretty interesting because now you've got more dialogue cuz there's two people in the conference. Mm-hmm. You don't have to act with pure facial expressions. Right. Voiceover. Maybe that's a lot
Steve: better voiceover.
I was so hungover that day when I was piling. Yeah.
Jason: Um, and that's when I discovered the blood. Yeah. That's not cool. Let me ask you this.
Steve: Yes. What if this were a movie? Okay. What are the key plot points that you see making this whole thing come together where you can develop your character of someone falling apart in that 90 minute to two hour time window that
Jason: you'd have in a movie?
Okay, so if it were a movie, I would start off with some sort of like credits montage, showing that he is a remarkably well put together. Example of what you would want out of a professional pilot, which would make sense because he has, you know, a nice plane and expensive and it's a very niche area that has a high demand.
And you know, it's, he's gotta be responsive and professional and deal with all sorts of unexpected, we need to be here and deal with this storm or that thing and all that. And so he's very well put together and you established that very clearly. Then I would wanna surprise the audience. By completely shifting the tone when he starts to break down.
Going back to that scene I was trying to paint where it's like, everything seems fine, but it's an unusual flight. Things are getting a little bit out of control, and he seems to be struggling more than you would think based on what you've seen of him so far. And then there's a short time jump and it's a bloody mess, right?
I would want to do that, like, I mean, obviously everybody would see it in the trailer, but I would want it to be a surprise to somebody who walked into the theater cold, which by the way, is the best way to see a movie. Just glance at the poster, walk in and sit down and watch it. Like that is without a doubt my best experience.
I saw a sling blade that way. I was like, oh, I heard it's good. I don't know anything about it. Awesome. I still remember being surprised the whole time. So anyway, you set that up. That gets the plot going. Then I would want to throw a twist at him. Maybe you think? Okay. Yeah. The story is gonna be that he's trying to get away with murder, basically.
Like he's trying to get away with murder, but then, A second kill for me would be like the twist where he did it again. Why did he do that again? Yeah, like it seemed like he was getting away with it. Then I would, you know, have this like, you know, I guess I'd have to kind of rush it cuz I was thinking of it as a series.
But his arc would be, To ultimately realize that he can't control himself and that he's not who he was at all, just abandon everything about his prior life. And I guess if it's a movie, I would have him realize that someone that in his life that you know, he never worked with, or that was a big disappointment or a failure.
Is actually compatible with this new version of him in whatever messed up way they end up living, wherever that is, however different it is. Actually, the two of them fit, and then I would kind of leave it there. The two of
Steve: them being like a relationship that he's in or like his co-pilot,
Jason: he's doing something.
I now, I wanna make this a comedy now. I don't know why, but I want it to be like a, it ends, it's like a buddy cop ending, except they, you know, they kill people sometimes. Like it's your, I'm bringing back your guy. And I'm making it kind of funny at the end. And in the end they realize his PTs d, your guy's, PTs, D from Illa action or whatever military training that he had and experience actually kind of fits nicely with this person's evolving schizophrenia or you know, sociopathy.
Like they actually kind of fit together in a weird, kind of funny way that gets dark, you know, and then they drive off. You know, maybe with a body in the trunk, kinda like a zombieland type of Yes. Maybe they find their place where their brand of weirdness actually kind of works. You were going after something though.
When you asked me that question. What were you going after? I was going after It's a movie. No,
Steve: cause I kept thinking about it as a movie. But then right when you kept bringing up ideas about the complexity of this character, I was like, I don't know how that's actually gonna work as a movie to have such a complicated character in such a short amount of time.
Fight Club worked. Yeah.
Jason: It's a different character, but he was complicated. Right.
Steve: Yeah, that's true. I was thinking about, your version was such a complicated character as a much longer series. And then I was thinking of like the one, the version that I was talking about had these like action plot points.
Yes. That
Jason: kind of explode. You're hitting, hitting beats.
Yeah.
Steve: That kind of drive everything forward. And now I'm thinking like if this was some kind of like dark comedy, wouldn't it be kind of funny that you think that people are gonna be really like. Worried about where this guy is, this billionaire guy, right?
Mm-hmm. But it turns out at the end you realize that they were all working to not have him ever be found in their own way.
Jason: Oh, that'd be awesome. Like the
Steve: detective I that reveal the detective who gets rid of certain key pieces of e evidence, the judge has been literally trashing it. You know, the ex-wife.
Comes up with an alibi for like Yeah.
Jason: You know, they're all kicking things under the rug. Yeah. They're all kicking
things
Steve: under the rug, but Yeah. But you basically think this whole time that it's this very serious investigation until the end, kinda
Jason: like, and he's, he's just on the verge of getting caught the whole time.
Right. Yeah. I love that. Loves that. And he's losing his mind because he's trying to figure out how to, so if it's a comedy, he's watching movies where people cover up crimes. Yeah. And like documentaries about successful killers. And he is listening to podcasts, you know, about how people get away with murder and he is like going back and like trying to do every single thing.
And then in the end you find out that people have literally been tossing evidence like off the cliff. They're like, oh, we hated that guy. And it's why? It's like, oh, I hate that. I, I've killed that. Killed. Killed for years. Killed. You know, I've been trying to, they all know that he did it. They're trying to protect him.
It's, oh my God. It's a usual suspect's reveal at the end where they've been like feeding him things, Uhhuh, giving him subtle clues, like even in the interrogation, like how to get out of it. Even the lawyer is like trying to help him out. Like that would be not his lawyer. The other lawyer. The other lawyer, yeah.
Is like trying, the prosecutor is trying to help him out the whole time.
Steve: The whole thing is just this elaborate ruse to make sure that this guy doesn't spend one day in jail. Yeah. Because they've been wanting to get rid of this guy for
Jason: ages because that guy is so bad. He's just, he was so, so horrible that people think it's a good deed to protect the person who finally killed him.
Yeah. And they all but this guy, he has no idea. Yeah. I love, yeah. They've even talked to each other. They, they're frustrated. There's a scene like a usual suspect's flashback scene, uhhuh where they're talking and they're frustrated that he keeps doing stupid things like he poured bleach all over the rug, the Rens guys and the next shot, there's like a Rens guy sitting there and he is tearing up a report or he is going back in to pour something that neutralizes bleach.
He lights the plane on fire to get rid of the e evidence.
Steve: Like the whole thing and, and maybe it's even like a short film, you know what I mean? Let's a 45 minute movie as opposed to even like a whole hour and a half, cuz it's like all based around this one thing that happens. But I just thought that would be really silly if that were the whole
Jason: plot of it.
I love it. I think that's funny. Everyone's helping him
Steve: and they're like, you know, we know, right? Mm. And he's like, you know what? You know, and it's like, we know it was you this whole time. And he's just like completely clueless. Or maybe he's just clueless to begin with. Maybe the way this guy dies, like he thinks he had something to do with it, but he didn't like slipped and fell and hit
Jason: his head on the edge something.
Oh, so he never killed
Steve: him anyway. Yeah, but he had been turned around for a second. He didn't even realize he got distracted or something and there was turbulence and the guy fell. He had something to do with it. Just something so goofy. And ridiculous. It sounds like Dumb and dumber
Jason: now it's getting there.
Yeah. We've gone from the exploration of somebody losing their sanity and taking wealthy people out with them, you know, and potentially crashing their plane into a school bus. Right. Uhhuh. And then we've worked our way all the way up to Dumb and Dumber four. It's like snakes on a plane, part two for the billionaire.
It's not even that sophisticated at this point. No, that's funny. Okay, so this is a question we should ask the our single listener. Yes. Uh, is this better as a. Like an HBO series or a, uh, who else has good stuff going these days? Paramount Plus, uh, hbo, max cvs. All Access? Yeah. Okay. So is this better as like a dark drama where you watch.
Someone who's very buttoned up, gradually fall apart and kill a lot of rich people along the way. Drugs and sort of heavy themes and the occasional, you know, cheesy Instagram model, you know, guest or episode where it's a little bit lighter, but there's always this darkness, right? There's always this person falling apart.
Do we like that? Number one, do we like? Number two, the more action intrigue, corporate espionage, thriller where our pilot has agency and direction and he's a sane person who chooses to kill voluntarily and has the skills to do it for that option. What's, is there a third one before we get to
Steve: the buddy?
It's like the buddy comedy.
Jason: Okay. With blending of the two. Right. Where we bring those of two
Steve: characters together. Yeah, exactly.
Jason: And they end up realizing that in this crazy world, they fit together. Yeah. And ride off in the sunset, like Thel and Louise.
Steve: But they don't drive into, you go a canyon, they just ride
Jason: off.
Ride drive off into the sunset, minus the sunset. Yeah. And Brad Pitt, because we'll have a sequel Or do we do this last one where it's a usual suspect's comedy? Uh, basically, I guess if you like that conceptualization where he thinks he's covering up a murder, but in the end you find out that he was actually doing it terribly and it takes a village maybe via some flashbacks.
Go ahead. Your notes in the comments. Sure. Send us a a mail. A letter. Yeah,
Steve: a letter to PO Box.
Jason: Send a postcard with your choices to be entered to win. You can get another free episode. Anything else? What else? What else do we need the audience to fix right now? They
Steve: need to fix everything cuz they need to choose a plot for us. Choose the character arc. Choose the,
Jason: just a few things. Yeah, just, just a few things.
A general
Steve: key events. Yep. Length. Whether it's a mini series, a film, a web episode series. The rest of the soundtrack,
Jason: traditional,
Steve: the rest of the soundtrack. A traditional series. What do we have and where is it gonna air? Just a few things.
Jason: And they need to pay us money for it. I guess somebody ideally would do that at some point where they would, yeah, so we can start writing it.
Some guy would take a cigar out of his mouth and go, I love it. I love it. Print it. Here's a Susan. Get these men a hundred million dollars. I want this done by the end of the month. I was just
Steve: reading a book actually for all you listeners about. This
Jason: guy. Hi mom. Hello. Sorry. Go ahead. Hello.
Steve: Hey, mom. About how there's this reader in one of these studios for production companies, and this manuscript came across his desk and this guy has been reading for a really, really long time.
He never gives anything a vote of confidence. He. Doesn't like anything he reads gets really low marks in the coverage that he gives to his boss. Mm-hmm. And he's known for that. One day he gets a manuscript and he reads it and he has a funny title and he gets to the end, he reads it in one sitting, which he never does, and he's like, this is the most incredible thing I've ever read.
We need to make this movie. So he sends it up to his VP and she's like, this is, this is impossible because you give everything such horrible coverage and everything gets, like, don't make a movie out of it. And he's like, read this thing. So long story short, she reads it, she runs up to the head of the production company, some huge production content, throws a manuscript on his desk and she's like, you have to make this movie.
And he reads it. His answer to her is, no, I just don't think this Wizard School thing is gonna work.
Jason: That was riveting, by the way. That was, I was riveted the entire time. It was like a modern fairy tale. So this was a novel manuscript then, right? Yeah. Okay. So you read a whole novel manuscript in one sitting?
Yeah. Well,
Steve: it might have been the screenplay adaptation that someone had made of that. Novel. So they were offering it for $500,000 to a studio. He thought, a, it's too expensive and B, he doesn't like the concept of Wizard School. It's never gonna work.
Jason: So, you know, it's too similar to Harry Potter is your point.
Right, exactly.
Steve: Too similar.
Jason: This has been done already. Get outta my office.
Steve: So yeah, it's um, I just found that story very funny.
Jason: So that's your word of caution to anyone that would consider our manuscripts? Exactly. When they come across their desk and it comes across their
Steve: desk and they're gonna say, you know what, I don't like pilots.
Yeah. And I don't like billionaires and I don't like the combination, so we're not gonna make it. So that's just a
Jason: word of word, but I'm afraid of passing on the next Harry Potter. So let's do it. Get these guys on the phone. Can you get some kids into this story? Can they have some magic powers? It was okay, a warning.
What if the pilot's 12 and he is got a scar on his face. Maybe he's the one. It was the warning
Steve: in the form of a parable. So for all you listeners out there,
Jason: all wealthy audience members, We want to see a movie about people like yourself getting killed. Maybe you run a studio, right? Maybe you live in a city where maybe you just have a cell phone camera.
If you've got enough money, you've got the story. You've spare about
Steve: $200 million in your bank account that's just sitting there and you're thinking about passing on this.
Jason: That's right. All of my stories, all of my ideas are something meets Harry Potter from now on. Essay should be, he flies to a wizarding school.
Exactly. Sometimes there's an episode of, I was gonna say that, that brilliant minds, we finally got on the same page with this pitch. Right. And there's a talking cat
Steve: in an owl
Jason: and some sort of game they have to play where they something chase something around with their airplanes in the air. Yeah. Flies around and they have to hit it with brooms maybe.
Yeah. This is the best idea. Yeah, that's, this is amazing. Right? It's Harry Potter.
Steve: It's Breaking Bad Takes on a plane Needs
Jason: phone Booth Meets Dumb and Dumber. Meets
Steve: Dumb and Dumber. It's like a ping pong
Jason: ball plot or a wait. Wait. I want the audience plot. Okay? All two of you never know what's send me your two line pitch for Harry Potter Meets Dumb and Dumber because now I absolutely need to see that movie on a plane.
It could be on a plane or it could be on pedophile island, whatever.
Steve: I'm flexible. Anywhere you wanna set it, we can set it wherever, wherever you want. However you, which way you wanna write it too? It's fine. Yep. Just as long as we get our
Jason: check, we'll take it, we'll take it, we'll ruin it a little bit and we'll cash it.
Steve: Just shake it up, give it a spin, and
Jason: we're all set. You realize we're never gonna make any money for our ideas episode. Yeah. Ever. This is just Absolutely do. Yeah.
Steve: Any treatments from here on out, they're going nowhere with the trash bin.
Jason: Think we've, we
Steve: have folders and folders of these
Jason: episodes just waiting.
That's, I can't wait until waiting Retirement home when we sit in the rocking chairs and just play 'em back. Play
Steve: the Snakes on a plain, dumb and Dumber episode. I wanna hear it again.
Jason: Play it again.
Steve: Turn it off.
Jason: Worth it, worth it. Yep, we got it. Uh, anything else? Anything else we need to say? Any questions for the audience?
Any other
Steve: ideas if they're still there? If you're still listening,
Jason: I know it's really late at night. Sorry. If you need help with your life, there are numbers you can call. Just don't call us. Yeah, seriously. All right. Thank you for listening. Thank you to the creative professionals who made all the projects we mentioned on this episode.
Thanks. Oh, oh, really? Okay. They're still talking. Hold on. And so,
That was, that was gold. That was gold. Kermit takes a bullet, take two. Anyway, go ahead. I'm sorry, Eddie. What? Um,
Steve: so they write themselves into a corner. Cohen Brothers, the Cohen brothers. Yeah. Yep. And they always have really original scripts and the pacing of all their scripts is, is so unique because of that.
Totally. So they'll keep going and they'll write and write and write and write until every character is backed into a corner Uhhuh. So because of the fact that they do that, they have to figure out a crazy way to get them out of that situation. Yeah. Which makes those movies so unique. So they're not writing everything down like you would outline a normal movie.
Right. It's like them looking at these characters that they're putting together and moving them along. Right. A basic plot until they can't move them anymore. And at that point, that's when they know things are gonna get really interesting. Cuz in that ricocheting bullet one, it's like introducing that just throws such a wrench into the plot.
That's like, now what do we do? Like what is this movie about? Who's the protagonist and what are these characters all about? When the movie was just like going along normally and then it's like, damn, there's a twist. It's coming in her hair. It's a huge twist.
Jason: Exactly. Just, no, I like that. So with the idea we were discussing, I shied away from that, right?
I never cornered the protagonist, but I think that's a good strategy, especially if it's gonna be a film. At some point our pilot or whomever needs to be cornered and we didn't even get to that. Right. If he's a Steven Segal type, you know, at what point is he in the back of the plane trying to get to the front of the plane for autopilot, but he's, you know, there's a bunch of ninjas in his way.
Steve: Or is it the stewardess that now is a protagonist? Ooh. Like she's been in the plane the whole time, but a minor character Uhhuh and the pilot dies, and that other guy,
Jason: Steven Segal dies. Steven Segal eight ninjas finally managed to kill him. Mm-hmm. So now she's the only one left,
Steve: but she knows how to fly and she's the, there's
Jason: ninja, there's still one ninja like that.
Steve: Um, what is that movie called? Not American Ninja. It's a comedy. Beverly Jim Cotta.
Jason: Oh, uh, Farley.
Steve: Yep. It's like Beverly Hills Ninja. But yeah. You see that whole concept of writing yourself
Jason: into a corner. Tell me to corner the protagonist. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Do something dramatic that puts the forces, the story to take a whole new direction.
And maybe
Steve: it's the investigator who becomes the main character all of a sudden. So you think it's about a pilot? But then you throw like a major like, or the plane crashes or whatever during their struggle, you know, he can't get back into the cockpit or whatever. Yeah. But you think it's about something, but then it's really about something else.
I love that. Like you started building up the pilot. I
Jason: love that. That's even better cuz that opens up so many cool things. Like his stripper ex-wife who became a stripper after they got divorced. Mm-hmm. Right. It seems like. Your kind of typical side character that brings some interesting moments to scenes, but then he gets killed by maybe the investigator or something and she's thrown into the main character position for the rest of the movie.
That's interesting. There's a, a novel,
Steve: it's called Queen of the South, and I believe the plot is that there's huge drug Lord in Mexico who's clearly the protagonist of the novel. But he ends up dying and the woman has to take over as his wife. Okay. And she doesn't know anything about the business whatsoever.
I think it's possible that she didn't even know that he was a drug Lord. But then it's like the whole moral conflict of what does she do? But she ends up going into it cuz she's kind of pulled into it just by the circumstances. Yeah. It's kind of like that. But on a smaller level, right? Where you have like the unlikely fish out of water type of character who is now in the lead.
But I think with this, writing ourselves into a corner or like discussing plots in this way, it just leaves you open, like you said, so many different possibilities of what it could actually be about. Cuz you can kind of follow the character. A group of characters and still be confused as to what, what's actually happening, like who's taking over.
Mm-hmm. And who should you be rooting for and not rooting for? Yeah. I like that. But it's hard. I think it's a hard thing to do. Mm-hmm. Because you typically write with a general outline of all your plot points that are gonna happen to, to get a resolution. A rabbit main character. Once you start playing that game, you know you have a whole different movie with a completely different plot.
You can even change the genre. Yeah. You
Jason: know, all of a sudden. Yeah, totally.
Okay. I think they finally warned themselves out and are ready to go down for a nap. If you'd like to reach the pod, shoot an email to. Don't encourage gmail.com. Please don't like or subscribe. Please don't send links to your friends. If you encourage these guys, they're just gonna keep making more of these episodes, but if you made it this far, thanks for listening.
See you next week.