Money will come and go but our hosts will never abandon the adrenaline-fueled world of the "Fast and the Furious" series, dissecting its evolution and impact on modern cinema. Transitioning to the realm of sci-fi, they shift gears to discuss the future of the Stargate constellation of shows, exploring potential new series and the impact of the entertainment industry strikes. Race to the end to hear the hosts pitch a captivating original idea that weaves magic into the fabric of society, delving into the consequences of a world where ancient mystical forces slowly erode the foundations of the modern world, sparking a riveting exploration of belief and survival. Tune in for an exciting ride through the worlds of high-octane action and speculative fiction.
Money will come and go but our hosts will never abandon the adrenaline-fueled world of the "Fast and the Furious" series, dissecting its evolution and impact on modern cinema. Transitioning to the realm of sci-fi, they shift gears to discuss the future of the Stargate constellation of shows, exploring potential new series and the impact of the entertainment industry strikes. Race to the end to hear the hosts pitch a captivating original idea that weaves magic into the fabric of society, delving into the consequences of a world where ancient mystical forces slowly erode the foundations of the modern world, sparking a riveting exploration of belief and survival. Tune in for an exciting ride through the worlds of high-octane action and speculative fiction.
Reach the pod at DontEncourage@gmail.com
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[00:00:00] welcome to Don't Encourage Us, the show where we talk about the big ideas behind fiction projects of all different kinds. Books, movies, TV shows, video games, nothing's off limits.
I'm your host Jim Raynor, and I'm here with my co host Kerrigan. How you doing today?
Nice to talk to you as always, Jim Raynor.
So today we're doing a story break episode, so feel free to bail now if that's not your thing. Before we get into that, anything interesting that you ran into this week?
Yeah, , I watched, , Fast and the Furious.
Ooh, wow, which one?
The latest one, I don't know, what is it, ten now? Ten thousand?
Doesn't matter. Yeah.
They all blend together. I'm not sure. , it's a movie about things happening randomly for reasons that you don't really understand.
At high speed?
at high speed. Yeah. So there's a point in the movie where one of the characters has a snack, starts hallucinating. They never talk about it again. [00:01:00] Next scene, he's totally fine in the middle of a fight , with another guy.
I love how , you equate totally fine and in the middle of a fight as the same
For Fast and Furious, yeah, there's always some random fight that happens, you know.
Just back to his normal fighting self.
Jason Statham showed up, so you know there's going to be a fight. Like, as soon as he showed up, , there was a brawl.
He's already furious. He
just has to get to
furious.
That's a tagline for the next one.
Oh, that's pretty good.
any of those movies all the way through. I've seen about 40% of the first one and that's it. Do you think I'm the only one left?
There's absolutely no reason to watch one of those movies all the way through. Nothing makes sense whatsoever. Jason Momoa was just a caricature of a villain. Like a wild, crazed villain. , , it was beyond ridiculous. , it's an episode in and of itself. Maybe we should cover the whole F.
A. S. T. series. But [00:02:00] then we'd have to watch it.
I was going to say, what did I do to you?
You know what we could do? I could watch one, and then you could watch a completely different one, and then we could do a podcast. Because it wouldn't
And we could talk, talk about it as if we saw the same
Yeah, it wouldn't matter, would it?
I don't know that it would matter to anyone, but yeah, I always, I think of those movies as just a series of clips. Like that's just all they are. It's just a whole bunch of clips. And about every year they dump another one , with two hours of clips. And that's all
that
sounds about right, yeah. They're always like, just having a barbecue in the beginning.
Oh, because they're a family,
they're family, the whole
Yeah, I gotcha.
through the whole thing is like, I'll do anything for family. That's, that's basically
that's the, that's the manliest family event, right? They can't be all going to like, Walt Disney World on each other's shoulders, you know, with cotton candy and balloons. Like, we're a family!
you're grillin
You gotta be grillin
That's, that's about it.
and chillin [00:03:00] Yeah. Before you get fast and furious. Is that the opposite of fast and furious?
Grilling and
I think so. Yeah, that, that series is
cook some meat and hang out in some chairs.
We, uh, watching this movie and then realizing there's another one, because it's a cliffhanger at the end, I just, the, uh,
why do they keep doing that in movies? , they have this optimism that they can make two movies in short enough a period and actually release them that the audience isn't going to completely forget what happened in the last one, but they pushed back. You know, I don't know if you've. You've ever seen this, but the, uh, Spider Man series, uh, with the young Spider Man, the animated one, have you seen those?
multiverse or something.
Yeah, exactly. So they released part one and the idea was part earlier this year and part two would come out next year and they just keep kicking the release date. Because of the strikes and they want promotion. And I think there's probably some [00:04:00] additional work that needs to be done. They have this optimism that they can release two movies in a short period. And it's just, that hasn't been the case for about four or five years now.
Mm hmm. So I guess we'll do a
recap in the beginning.
, they generally seem to resist that, but the, I didn't realize the latest fast and furious was a part one.
I didn't either. , I got to the end and I was like, Oh my God, there's more of this. So I guess they're just going to milk it until, I mean, cause what's this series, 22 years old or something? I mean,
God. Wow.
it's been around forever, right? And they
But it's kind of perfect because they can swap the lead out, right? It's not like other series where you're stuck with one lead. Is it? I don't actually, I don't know. I haven't seen
I think the lead's always been Vin Diesel because he produces
uh, okay.
It's kind of like his, his franchise.
Gotcha. So until he retires, basically.
Basically, yeah. It's kind of like Mission Impossible and Tom Cruise.
Well, speaking of Jason Momoa, I [00:05:00] recently was watching Stargate Atlantis.
Have you ever seen that?
No.
Okay, so briefly, there's a very valuable intellectual property based on the, what was it like 1990 something Stargate film. Did you see that one? Dean Devlin, Roland Embrick, the guys who made a bunch of disaster movies in the 90s and early 2000s. So they made a movie called Stargate with James Spader and Kurt Russell.
One of the pay TV channels. bought the rights and they relaunched it as Stargate SG 1, which was a TV series following, um, who was the guy who played MacGyver? Richard Dean Anderson, I believe. Yeah, he stepped into Kurt Russell's role and they brought in some other characters and actors and it became this Very popular, very long running series that got canceled and then moved to another network and had five more seasons after that and so on.
And then they launched a spin [00:06:00] off called Stargate Atlantis. And the second season of that show, they shook up the cast a little bit and brought in a new, like young. character to join the main cast. And that was Jason Momoa. I believe that was his big breakthrough. So he was a regular cast member for the rest of the run, which I think was another four years and a really good, really standout character for that.
Uh, and it launched his career. I think from there he ended up on game of Thrones, if I recall, that's. I think that's the direct, yeah, sequence there. So anyway, uh, Atlantis was made and then that eventually kind of ran out of steam, but people still love the Stargate TV universe. So they made another show that went a couple years, but it didn't do as well because they changed the tone.
They tried to make it more like the Battlestar Galactica reboot. Anyway, I mentioned all of that because, , Amazon bought MGM. Not too long [00:07:00] ago. And one of the properties they inherited was this Stargate TV universe. And I just read, I was just curious because I was rewatching Atlantis. I just read that there was supposed to be an announcement for a new Stargate universe TV show.
There was going to be a pilot, I guess, or a TV movie or streaming film that bridge the gap between those series and this new one. And they had actually brought back a lot of the stars from SG 1 and Atlantis as part of this presentation to announce it. And then the writer's strike and the actor's strike got all that cancelled.
So now, uh, apparently there are a lot of new scripted series that may actually never get produced. Because networks are moving towards, like, reality TV in light of the writer's strike.
Oh wow.
So I don't know if you heard that.
I didn't hear that. I'm wondering how that affects writers on reality TV series. Because those reality
[00:08:00] TV series have a whole team of writers as well, right? And, and, I mean, I would think they would be striking, too, because it seems like it's a reality show where you're just filming non actors where you're paying them nothing, basically, but it's all structured as a as a show.
So I wonder how that's affecting that genre in general. And are they going to go to documentaries?
segment. Yeah. No, that's a really good question. I don't know that they're part of the same guild. Uh, I don't know that they're striking. That's something that definitely would be interesting to research, but probably either way it's a boon for people who, maybe they don't call themselves writers, but they definitely are.
So yeah, maybe it's a big boom for them in the next couple years.
Yeah, yeah, that'll be interesting to see what direction it takes, because I know when shows like the real world came out. And it shows along that line, it was a big deal because [00:09:00] you didn't really have to pay , these, , characters in your reality show much of anything, especially if they were new. And then you could reap all the benefits in terms of advertising, creating these celebrities out of those, those people.
And then, yeah, later down the line, they would get paid a lot more money, but nothing compared to an A list actor in a TV show.
No, your per episode cost is a fraction and that's part of the reason, I like to think what if, , I don't know if you remember back on around nine 11 where TV was completely disrupted and there were quite a few shows that were canceled. in their infancy or early on prematurely because everybody was watching the news and their ratings tanked at key points in the fall when, , advertising rates are determined.
So Firefly, John Doe, Family Guy, these are all shows that were shut down. More or less by that. , [00:10:00] and a couple of them made comebacks here, a few of the shows that had been canceled have since been revived, but a lot of them didn't. And there's a whole host of other shows that probably never launched as a result.
And, uh, I think that's something that we don't always think about during a writer strike or an actor strike is that a lot of executives at the streaming services are now thinking, or production companies are now thinking. Let's pivot away from that, you know, let's shelve these projects that maybe they've already assembled scripts or a cast or they have this whole plan to relaunch this thing or create this new IP that actually would be huge, but when they're crunching the numbers, they don't like feeling vulnerable.
And giving power to writers, actors, whoever's striking. So they just completely shift over to how can we copy survivor
So anyway, I Stargate, the new Stargate series might be a casualty.
Oh, wow. Yeah, I can't imagine putting that much work into something. And then you think it's [00:11:00] about to launch and it's just scrapped, right? Like things right as COVID started, for instance, that were about to be made. And then there's some shakeup in the executive structure of one of these streaming services or studios.
It's game over. They come in with their whole, whole new lineup of whoever they want to push and shows that they've been backing or wanted to get made. And then none of those see the light of day. I wonder, there must be just a huge graveyard. Of properties like that that have never been touched in a studio owns them, but they're not selling it to anybody else.
It's just in a vault, basically frozen.
Yeah. Well, the Marvel Cinematic Universe is probably a, uh, epically, originally, uh, massive example of that because they actually go so far as to have art, and I'm sure they have scripts, they have people cast, they have probably, like, tons of episodes written for some of these series or [00:12:00] multiple versions of the, uh, the script made for the movie, and they have sets built, and they announce it, and then Just vanishes off the schedule.
So there's probably this massive drawer full of, uh, different Marvel superhero characters that they've already done tons and tons of like art on, and maybe even built costumes and things like that, that they just throw in a closet or lock in a vault and we'll never see it. Actually, that would be a really interesting either documentary series or like coffee table book series or something like that, where or YouTube series where somebody just gets permission to go through, like, because maybe because there's not a lot of content being produced, they can kind of go through and say, this is this is some of the graveyard stuff.
You know, this is where we were going to go, what we were thinking. And we either went in a different direction, Uh, and made that project differently or just never made it or haven't made it yet. And that would keep interest high. I think a lot of people would tune [00:13:00] into that.
Yeah, I think that would be a great showcase for that content for sure. I wonder if they would offload that content or behind the scenes if studios are doing that. If they're trying to sell it to, let's say, smaller production houses, or let's say animation studios that aren't affiliated with the studio that owns the property, you know, maybe novels that have been adapted into, let's say, a feature length script, but a studio doesn't want to back it, maybe they're low budget , under 10 million, let's say, and there's a smaller studio that, you know, needs more content.
Are they able to go and negotiate the rights to that? I wonder if there's a marketplace for that, you know, just so they can make some money on it.
that's a good question. Uh, I would imagine there's some complicated elements around who gets paid out. If you resurrect something like that, there probably were deals in place, you know, that would require you to pay some royalties or write some checks [00:14:00] if you revive something that's dead. So I think it's probably a lot more complicated, but I, I'm sure you didn't see it. I haven't seen it yet, but I have heard a lot about it. There was a movie that came out earlier this year called, uh, I think it was Flashpoint. And it was this big DC high budget comic book movie and spoiler alert for those of you who haven't seen it or don't want to see it.
At the end of it, the main character kind of runs through parallel or alternate dimensions and the director included a lot of sort of classic portrayals of different DC like Superman and Batman and stuff like that. From past projects from the last like 30, 40 years. But he also included, uh, at least one that I know of project that never got produced where Nicholas Cage played Superman.
There was an original, like they were going to make a Superman movie and they cast him and they, they made a costume and did all this stuff and it never got. But some of that back, uh, you know, [00:15:00] behind the scenes footage got released and people have seen that and talked about it for years. So we actually included that as if it was a real universe that existed in the multiverse for DC Comics.
So some of those projects can take on a status that even exceeds the status of things that have been produced. So there's definitely a market there. There's interest, especially these days. And there is a way to weave it in to projects. So I don't know, maybe there's a potential gold mine there. I don't know.
Yeah, there could be. That was that Kevin Smith project, right?
That's right. Good, good memory. Wow. So even you've heard of it
Even me. Yes.
even bigger than I thought.
Who knew?
So I also finished reading the Martian. Have you ever read that?
I started it. I didn't, I didn't finish it though.
Did you see the movie?
I started it. Didn't finish it. Ha
Okay. Then no spoilers,
Ha ha
the movie several years ago and I really enjoyed it and [00:16:00] I finally got around to reading the book and it's good, but I will say it's a great book and I highly recommend it. It's Andy Weir is a really, really good actor. I mean, actor, writer, and he's written a bunch of other really good books.
So if you're interested in some science fiction, he's a really good choice, but having seen the movie. It definitely took a lot of the drama out of the book. So if you've seen the movie, the book kind of follows along and maybe try something else by Andy Weir. Uh, if you want to not know what's going to happen, if you want the suspense, but it is a really fabulous book.
So little, little recommendation there.
And for the audience who doesn't know what The Martian is about, it's Matt Damon plays a Martian, right, that invades Earth.
That's right. No spoilers
shh.
Just go to log in to chat GPT and ask it all about what is the Martian about and then report back to us because I'm sure it'll be something along those lines.
Yep. Yeah, I read Hail Mary. I really enjoyed that one. He's a great [00:17:00] writer.
Yeah, Hail Mary is spectacular. Yeah, and there's no movie yet So it's harder to spoil
There will be, I'm sure. I haven't looked it up, but I'm sure that's in the, uh, in someone's docket.
I would assume just because it was so entertaining Uh, but I don't know, maybe there's some issue there. Nah, eventually they'll make it. It just, it must be COVID or something that's delaying the production of that. Cause that is, that is probably even a better book than the Martian. I don't know, actually, it depends on your taste.
They're both equally excellent, I would say. But yeah, I love that book. I loved it so much. I bought copies for friends and just mailed it to them.
Oh, wow. Did you read Artemis?
Um, I think I started it, but I did not continue. What would, do you remember what that one was about?
Like a female astronaut or something? I started, I didn't get very far at all. I put it down. I don't know why.
what the issue was there. Yeah.
I think I might have been comparing it a lot to Hail Mary. I, it just didn't [00:18:00] grab me the way that that, that other book did.
Yeah, that's a high bar. He, he really outdid himself with Hail Mary. Yeah. And it was such a great ending too. I love how he, even though he's writing about really extreme. Fictional science, fictional circumstances, he brings you on board. It feels very real and very believable. And then the ending is very grounded in that universe and feels very real and believable.
And I love the way he writes his main characters a lot of the time with their cleverness and optimism, and they're very humble and they're like a little bit sarcastic and funny. Uh, it's just really, really different and great. Yeah,
Yeah, you really, as you're reading it you think of, you know, how would you act in that same situation? He's so great at putting you right there with the character, and One of the things that's always really impressive about, at least in that book, how persistent that main character [00:19:00] is in solving problems in general, you know, and I think that's probably the same for the Martian as well, for the character in the
Yes, definitely. Yeah, they're, they're persistent and good humored. So it's not that sort of classic 1950s sci fi where it's like, I'm going to dominate this planet to survive. Like, I'm going to defeat nature, get it in a headlock and, you know, uh, stripped down to the waist and wrestle it to the ground.
It's more of, I'm going to it. figure out how to interface with reality using math and physics and science and engineering and somehow Just continue to thrive. It's really really fascinating and very enjoyable to read.
Yeah, and the math and engineering part isn't so heavy that you can't relate to it if you're not a math or engineering person, you know?
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely Yeah, I love his back of the napkin math Phrase that he uses a lot where he just kind of says Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I calculated it's [00:20:00] complicated and off we go
to the next thing. So, but it's very believable. It's like, you don't really need the math to believe that there is math. So he walks that line perfectly as well.
Yep. Agreed.
Very good. All right. So should we move on to story break?
Let's do it. Are we gonna do the uh, story break song?
I was just thinking we need a story break theme, you know, like, I don't, I don't know any ideas that we didn't prep anything. Do you have any thoughts?
I don't, I kinda feel like we should add it during the edit. And just do like a, a story break. Like maybe do like a little AI type of voice modulator thing. That introduces story break. We'll do something clever for this one I think.
Welcome to StoryBreak, the podcast segment where imagination meets the silver screen. Each week, we dive deep into a fresh film, show, or series concept, and our two hosts go head to head, dissecting its merits and potential pitfalls. Will it be a blockbuster hit or a box office [00:21:00] flop, a binge worthy series or a one season wonder?
Join us on this cinematic journey as we explore the what ifs of the entertainment world. Grab your popcorn and let the debates begin.
So for this week's story break, I had a couple of ideas that I've been wanting to combine. So I thought we'd take a stab at combining these two ideas. The first one is an idea that came to me a long time ago, which I got interested in. I think it's visually appealing.
I think there's a lot of story potential to it. It's the idea of magic slowly returning to modern day earth, uh, and how those different magical like creatures or rules would interact with modern society. So you know, you think about a major city, you think about how, uh, you know, disruptive it would be if little by little.
Uh, there were, say, like, uh, I don't know, trolls or, [00:22:00] uh, goblins or, uh, different, you know, any kind of magical creature that you can imagine starting to pop up in sewers or in Central Park or in dark corners of apartment buildings, things like that. So just little by little. They're emerging and how different people would interact with them.
So I love that idea. And then the other thing that I wanted to combine it with is something you and I have been talking about, uh, that I've been thinking about since we, we did our episode on pulse or pulses, pulse verse pulse. Uh, and that's the idea of a surprise apocalypse. So I don't know if you remember, but we talked about how there are certain films like into the mouth of madness, the original pulse, uh, I think the American remake was the same, but where the, the rules of the problem are such that it starts small and it seems like one individual.
Is kind of wrestling with, or a small number of people in one place are wrestling with this [00:23:00] supernatural element. But then by the time you're in act two, you realize it's actually spread out. It's affecting more people in that city or in that area. And then in the last act, you realize, or somewhere along the way, you realize it's worldwide. So I was thinking to combine those two pieces to create the setting in a world where magic is slowly coming back into like our existence and spreading very, very subtly. At first, you start pretty tight. And one individual, one family, one group, and then in one place, and then it gradually expands and, uh, in the end you realize surprise, it's actually worldwide and it's destroying or disrupting society fundamentally to the point where it breaks down.
Um, so I think that would be, it could be a movie. You know, it'd be pretty quick paced. It could also be a novel. [00:24:00] It could be a streaming series. You could, this could unfold over the course of a season or 10 episodes or 20 episodes or something like that. Um, and then the last piece is. Unlike our other pitches or our other story break episodes, I really wanted this to be more character driven.
I wanted our pitch to start with characters and then put them in this world and then have it kind of expand like that. So questions, reactions. What do you think?
I think the idea is really fascinating. And, you know, I'm a big fan of... These types of things, like, let's say it's magic or gravity. We have that concept about gravity disappearing, um, slowly over time being revealed as being the issue. I wonder, with this one, would you take the audience on a journey where they understand that this is happening from the get go?
Or, like the [00:25:00] character, do they start seeing things kind of shift in their reality, and we're kind of going along for the ride?
Yes, I think definitely that one so that it looks like a surprise. So instead of like, um, let's say if it were a novel, right? You start off in like chapter one is like San Francisco 5 a. m. Uh, on a Tuesday. And then it's like, Oh, uh, somebody has this weird experience at a convenience store at 5 a. m. where some little magical creature interacts with them.
And, you know, the reader is like, that's weird. And then it's like Tokyo, you know, 12 hours later, and then somebody else has like a little. Experience with a magical creature in an alley where they get attacked or something, and then it cuts to like Moscow or, you know, rural Mongolia. And then there's someone else like encounters a dragon or something.
I don't, I don't like that for this idea. At least I don't want to tackle this idea that way. At this point, I really want to start with. [00:26:00] Like you said, like an individual character or a small number of characters and leave the audience unsure, like, well, actually have them believe that it's just about these characters kind of like, um, Oh shoot.
What are those movies? They're so popular right now. Um, Where one person deals with like a haunting or a demon, um, you know, those, oh, shoot, I'm blanking on it. Yes. Insidious. Perfect. Uh, so like the insidious, it feels like the insidious universe where it's one. with one threat. So we'll start with that perspective.
So yes.
And is this magic threatening? Is it something that the character wants to use themselves to get ahead in some way? Is the main character that you're following evil or power hungry? Like, where's, where do you see the, the plot going? Because you have a great
Okay. Yeah. So the premise is wide open and if you have [00:27:00] your own thoughts, feel free to run with them. But if you prefer, I did go ahead and take a stab at breaking down like three acts, like 30 minute chunks and keeping it tight on a character to kind of illustrate. My point about how you start small and then there's a surprise reveal later that it's actually a bigger issue, broader and expanding, and then even bigger issue in the third act.
So I can explain my version of that. But if you have any ideas, feel free to
I just had an observation. This kind of parallels that movie Hellraiser, the latest Hellraiser,
Okay.
this idea of this, you know, netherworld hellish universe existing starts revealed, to be revealed very very slowly for the characters, and then it's kind of unleashed and you understand how much bigger it is.
And the characters understand how much bigger it is, and they get, they pull [00:28:00] together in order to, you know, beat this, you know, evil entity, um, Pinhead, and all, Pinhead's minions and everything, but it's kind of, it sounds like what you're getting at is something similar, and you're kind of along for the ride with the characters, except these characters, you're just like, what are you doing?
You know what I mean? You're making all these bad decisions that kind of are opening up this, this realm, but,
Hmm.
But I don't
Yeah, that sounds good.
But yeah,
Well, so I said, I wanted to try a more character driven pitch. So I started with, uh, so the beginning is around a young girl. She's about like, let's say nine or 10 years old. Um, she's in Japan. She's Japanese. She's with her parents and she's on a train going through rural, a rural part of Japan, like headed north away from Tokyo.
Um, so they're on this high speed train and it's a horror film. [00:29:00] I'm gonna, you know, cause it's an apocalypse. So I'm going to go with, so imagine sort of like muted tones, like not quite to the level of pulse, but, uh, that kind of horror, uh, visual. You know, where it's a little bit off color. It's a little bit of a darker color.
It's a little bit of a muted kind of feel. So imagine that tone. So she's riding on the train. It's quiet. She's looking out the window and she sees, uh, that there is a Uh, actually, you know what, before I get into that, I wrote a log line for this. So I'm going to try to start there. So the log line for this pitch is a young Japanese girl loses her parents and a tragic train accident and relocates to New York city to live with her estranged uncle.
There she's drawn to central park to grieve alone and encounters a strange animal that exposes her to unimaginable magic and danger. So that's the setup. Right. So nine year old girl, she's in [00:30:00] Japan. She's riding in a train through the countryside with her parents. She looks out the window or the camera, you know, is sort of mounted on the side, if you imagine like on the side of the train and you see there's a dog on the track ahead and it doesn't move and the train strikes the dog.
And it's a little bit of like a gory scene where it hits the dog and you know that you can imagine how that would go and then lightning strikes the tracks in the train, which derails the train and kills the parents, right? So that's your kind of your open. And then you cut to the girl. Who's now moved in with her uncle in New York city.
She's quiet, withdrawn, and she doesn't really speak much. Her English isn't very good, um, because she lived in a rural part of Japan. She likes central park. So that's kind of the only thing that she responds to. So her uncle takes her there. And he's not used to parenting. He's he's [00:31:00] been a little bit separated from the family.
He's very Americanized. Uh, he doesn't connect with her very well and he has no experience with kids. So when he takes her to the park, she wanders and he doesn't really closely supervise her. So while she's in the park, she encounters an animal like a rabbit or a fox. I'm not really sure which animal would make sense, but she encounters like a small animal, which reacts strangely and it leads her and plays with her and like leads her to the bushes. Where, like, there's a little bit of a clearing area that's shielded by trees and bushes, and it plays games and even goes so far as to draw symbols in the dirt with her. So, you know, I'm imagining, like, a very kind of creepy tone to this, where as an audience member... You're watching this sort of almost, um, cartoonish interaction, but you're on edge because of the tone of the film.
It's like this girl, you're like, you're aware of her vulnerability and that this [00:32:00] creature is acting very strangely. And because it's a horror toned film, you're expecting something bad to happen. Right. So anyway, she's in this little alcove area. She's, you know, interacting with this creature that seems to have an almost human intelligence, but is an animal.
And, um, so her uncle sort of starts yelling to like, where are you? Come back. Right. That disrupts her playing with this creature. And she runs to be, go back to her uncle, uh, and the, the creature disappears. And he yells at her and gets mad and their relationship continues to be strained where she kind of shuts down even more because he's yelling at her.
So any questions or thoughts so far?
um, so you, you're making it really, really clear right from the get go that something is off, like from the beginning, you got the lightning strike. You're [00:33:00] cutting across when you're talking about the tone. Is it just like really ominous music? Is this wolf? Like, does it have red eyes? Are you imagining it like a kind of like a werewolf looking thing?
Or is it, or is it more toned down? Cause wouldn't she naturally be really afraid of something like that? Or is there a reason why she's...
yeah, I said rabbit or fox. Because I wanted it to be something that a child, like a, a nine or 10 year old would think was odd. Like if you imagine her playing at the playground and she sees like a rabbit or like a small animal that looks kind of cute bouncing around, uh, not so far away that she couldn't get to it.
Right. That's the kind of thing that would draw a child in. But as an adult watching it, you're going to be wary of something like that because you're thinking that animal is acting strangely and she's not thinking that. So, you know, she's this like depressed, grieving, shut down child, but this is something that [00:34:00] sparks a little bit of happiness and life back into her.
So she's drawn to it. But as you know, most of us have been told in our lives or when we were kids, there's so many stories. About being wary of, you know, strangers with candy, basically like watch out for those things that seem appealing, but don't match with your experience or they don't fit the real world.
So it's, it doesn't look dangerous, but the situation feels dangerous to the audience. And I would go easy on the ominous music. I don't want to pulse soundtrack, you know, nothing like that. And nothing like so over the top that, you know, it's. I just want a soundtrack that creates unease.
Mm hmm.
Does that make sense?
you know what this reminds me of a little bit? That scene in It with the clown dragging the child under into the,
Ah, yes.
sewer. So that idea,
Yes, [00:35:00] exactly. But not quite as extreme because it's a clown in the sewer, right? And it, which is like, you know, as an adult, you're like, that's just weird. And a kid should know that's kind of that's strange, right? Don't stick your arm in there. But, uh, That is an excellent example, right? So that, but like a little bit more muted and a little bit less, uh, odd, but yes, definitely.
And then once she's in the woods with the animal, it's behavior is clearly. it does, and it is displaying like a human intelligence that seems threatening, um, to it, to the viewer and to the child. It's sort of fascinating and confusing and exactly like an it. Uh, that's a really good parallel. The child in this story would be becomes, you know, a little bit wary, uh, because the animal is displaying.
Uncharacteristic intelligence. And even she knows that's not right. Like it, right. Writing symbols in the, in the dirt [00:36:00] is, is disconcerting. So anyway, when her uncle yells, that's one reason why she runs away. So anyway, back to their relationship, which is a really central focus of this pitch. They're not getting along.
He, he does not know how to connect with her. His Japanese is poor because he was raised in America and her English is poor because she was raised in Japan and he, he doesn't know how to connect with her and her grief, um, so, or parent. So that's, uh, you know, kind of a quiet focus of the film and the first act.
Um, so the second time they go to the park, which is something she wants to do. She still is drawn to the park. Uh, she plays with this, this animal draws her back into the woods again. She plays with it, but it transforms in front of her from what it was, let's say like a rabbit into a squirrel and then into another animal like, uh, maybe the fox or a black bear cub.
And she's really. Like, she's enjoying [00:37:00] this, it's like fun, uh, and she's amazed and there's no like, she doesn't sense any threat from this. Um, and then at one point, after it's transformed and played with her, it speaks one word or one phrase in, uh, like an Indian, like a Native American language. But she doesn't recognize that.
So it speaks this like native phrase. There's a, there's a couple tribes, one in particular that was native to that part of New York a long time ago and was displaced or wiped out. I have to read more about the history, but I thought it would be interesting if the animal spoke in the language of that tribe and just said like one word or one phrase.
And just in that moment, another child crashes through the woods, uh, to come, you know, play with the, or crashes through the bushes to play with this creature too, right? So this child comes running in, it's like a jump scare, right? Right after [00:38:00] the creature speaks, this other child comes running in from behind.
And that child clearly knows the creature, has interacted with it before, and it brings it something. Uh, and plays with it and so on. And while this child, this new child is playing with this creature, suddenly the child gets snatched into the woods. Like the creature grabs it from behind and just pulls it into the woods and it vanishes. So any questions or thoughts so far?
How is the nine year old girl getting outside so much to go to the park in general? She's just wandering off from the uncle. Is it daytime? Is
Yeah, I'm thinking the uncle's just taking her to the park because she wants to go and he doesn't know anything about parenting. He had this kid dumped on him. It's just an easy place for him to just like. He's, you know, let her run around like as far as he knows, it's fine. There are other kids and he's not watching her.
He's sitting there on his laptop or his phone, like trying to work right. And [00:39:00] she just gets lured into like a, you know, a little bit of a dense area. It doesn't have a wood. It doesn't have to be like a big area because this is magical. Right. So it doesn't have to be fully rational or logical. It's just this creature lures her into this little, you know, covered area where there's enough, there are enough woods or bushes here that, uh, she, it can, it can do that, whatever it's doing with kids.
Any other questions or thoughts?
Now, I'm liking this so far. And the symbols that it's drawing, the child doesn't know what symbols they are? Or were they Japanese characters that are kind of...
So I think it's Lena pay or Lena pay was a tribe in that area. And part of this mythology that I'm trying to create is around this idea of the magic that's coming back is tied to the area. And so the mythologies of [00:40:00] people who lived in that area, uh, specifically, that is, like, basically that's relevant knowledge again.
So, for instance, the druids could come back in that particular area,
Yes.
Et cetera. All around the world. Okay,
So in this area, the, and I have to do a ton of research because it, I don't, you know, it needs to be accurate in my, in my opinion, but there, again, there was a native tribe in that area. So the symbol that this creature drew could be related to that tribe. Uh, it could be some form of language or communication or writing that they used, and the word or phrase that it spoke would be in that language. But she's not going to know that, and I'm not going to, I was thinking not to translate it for the viewer either. So perhaps what it says or what it writes is something ominous if you know that culture, but it's [00:41:00] just going to be confusing or maybe even sound like gibberish because it's coming from an animal, so it's not going to be pronounced really clearly either.
It's just, it'll just seem like, wow, that seems like it's a language or that symbol seems significant, but I'm hoping that the viewer will be curious and trying to figure out what it has to do with the story and the mythology and not really know.
you know, I was thinking, I don't know where you're taking this, but instead of doing it in the dirt, it would be fascinating if it did it on a tree, because later on you could bring in, let's say, some expert or someone who's an expert in that area for whatever reason, I don't know where you're taking the plot right now, but they'd be able to, the little girl could lead them to, What it is, you know, and that would kind of open things up in terms of solving this mystery or understanding what's going on, but continue.
Yes. No, no. I love that. That actually works with where I was going with [00:42:00] this. So I'm, I'm pitching this as a three act structured film. So I am moving along quickly. I'm not adding as much detail as I would like. Uh, if it was a series or a novel, then I would definitely do, uh, expand all of this and get into a lot of that stuff a lot more, but what you said works as a three hour, you know, works as part of this film structure would work exceptionally well if this were a novel or a novel series or a TV show, because it would offer evidence that they could really chew on later to reveal some of the underlying mythology that I've imagined for this as a film, it's better.
I think like. To keep the tone of something like Pulse or Into the Mouth of Madness or some of these other horror films, it's better to kind of skate over that stuff and let the audience think about it and imagine it themselves. So I like having scratched, you know, the animal scratched it into the tree.
For example, uh, or some other piece [00:43:00] of evidence, but I don't know that I'd have as much time in a horror film to really analyze that evidence and go into depth, but it still is important and could still be viewed later. But absolutely. That's an excellent, um, add to the story. All right. So, uh, after this child is snatched, the police, uh, you know, kind of cut to like the police are called and then you cut to the police station where there's an investigation going on.
This child disappeared. Our main character is the only witness. So she's being interviewed by someone who speaks Japanese. Uh, you know, I'm thinking like maybe an officer or someone they brought in who can translate or interview her because that officer or that investigator or translator knows Japanese.
And so it's a very kind of somber toned, um, you know, a moment for this child where we're back to kind of grounded reality. Um, this horrible thing happened. She's already had horrible things happening. She's psychologically shutting down. You know, [00:44:00] there's all this attention is really hard for her as a young child to deal with, you know, having lost her parents and then observing or witnessing an abduction.
So you can picture her like in the interrogation room or in the room where they're interviewing her. And then on the other side of the glass is like her uncle and the psychologist is explaining like she's witnessed these. She's had these two traumatic events. She's going to be even more shut down. She doesn't really know how to process this.
It's up to you to kind of provide some stability and security and things like that. So then you shift gears to the uncle. He feels guilty about not really watching her not being a good parent. He's trying to connect with her. She's shutting down even more because of these tragedies that she's witnessed and Maybe they have there's like a scene where he's really trying to connect with her and they find something significant or he finds something significant that ties to her old life in Japan and rural Japan and they Kind of connect to that and maybe that sort of is significant in the [00:45:00] film or relates to the theme of the movie So that's the first act as I envision it Right.
So we had these, a couple, we had these few supernatural moments. We had this, uh, we start with a tragedy, you know, kind of a disgusting, like, you know, set the tone of a horror film where an animal gets struck by a train. And then you have this like sort of, you know, camera tight on the, um, parents and the child and the train is sort of flipping and then she wakes up and they're dead and, you know, all that kind of set a tone, then you.
Go back to, you go to New York and really it's about her relationship with her uncle and this child dealing with grief. Then you introduce the other supernatural elements and the police get involved because a child was taken. So that's, that's, I think a good first act. It's relatively tight. There's a supernatural element, but it feels like it's very centered around the girl.
So in the second act, uh, there's. An increase or there's sort of like background info and the TV [00:46:00] or this now police officer who's speaks Japanese is connected with her a little bit. Um, there's, they note that there's an increase in some violent crimes. Uh, maybe the, the uncle takes the nine year old girl to a different park.
Again, but watches her very closely and suddenly the police show up because another child was abducted in this other park. And so there's been a string of abductions in New York City, child abductions. There are hints in the background of other bad things happening to people. It's like now you're getting this sort of idea that like, well, there's an increase in crime or violent deaths or accidents in New York, like what's going on?
Uh, then there's that sort of note of, well, actually there have been more child abductions worldwide. Uh, so the scale is increasing. And then the characters get drawn into this concept or introduced to this concept of magic [00:47:00] coming about or coming around like more supernatural things happening all over the world.
And I like this idea of it being revealed in the second act that there is a connection between different elements or materials. And the supernatural things that pop up. So if you're in the woods or in a park or things like that, the supernatural, um, elements or the magical elements are tied to the mythologies of the people of that area.
Uh, so if you are dealing with materials that have been transplanted. From another part of the world, which is increasingly true. I mean, that's definitely a factor of modern society than some supernatural creatures or, um, superstitious elements or that we previously thought of as part of the superstitions of a particular group of people are now happening in a [00:48:00] completely different part of the world than they ever did. So does that make sense?
It makes sense. Yeah, I'm just trying to, and I'm sure you're going to reveal it, how everything comes together in terms of the characters. So we've got a nine year old little girl with her uncle, but then are there three, three other characters that we're following? Is this, how does this all. Fit together.
I'm genuinely curious. It's a good
Yeah. So I kind of left that open, you know, I, I didn't want to like write the whole script. So as I went through the acts, I just allowed for more, you know, I, we were, I, or we will figure out how to add this in. So in the first. Act, it's very much about this girl and her uncle in the second act, or towards the, I guess, during the first act, I introduced a third character, which is the police, uh, interpreter or the officer who speaks Japanese, who gets involved.
Um, I thought in the second act. I [00:49:00] might incorporate some other characters and these are people who, uh, maybe there's someone who's an expert on, um, the mythologies of, uh, Native American tribes or just someone they know in the building or, uh, you know, they encounter who's knowledgeable about superstitions or supernatural, um, Mythologies of all, you know, different parts of the world.
Uh, somebody who has seen a pattern in these things and is maybe viewed as a little bit crazy, but I wanted, you know, wanted to bring in more characters who can offer that insight. Uh, but then I don't want the cast to get too big. So I'd probably kill them off because these, you know, tragic occurrences of horror films.
So like people need to die or get lost or, you know, disappear. Does that answer your question?
Yeah, is there an antagonist here? Like a main
That's a great question. Yes. So that was one of the things that I had, uh, as a question at the end. [00:50:00] So presently, the closest thing in this concept as I've envisioned it so far to an antagonist, would be this Native American creature. Um, and it's a shape shifting troublemaking, uh, you know, uh, animal spirit that, that, that exists.
And that, uh, Lena pay or Lena pay, I think, uh, tribe in their, uh, superstitions or in their mythology is this, it's a little bit like a Loki character. It's like a shape shifting animal that, um, you know, can be very dangerous. And so that's. the closest thing to an antagonist. And I did think about bringing it back and having it, it's sort of like locked into this girl.
So it appears in the second act again and is coming for her now. And so it does sort of follow them, but it's not driving the magic. It's just something that has now sort of like, um, become her [00:51:00] personal antagonist in this drama. Does that make
sense?
Just trying to think how you would fit. So this creature, figuring out what the creature, what its powers are,
Right,
what its vulnerabilities are.
right.
who, I think that expert in in that tribe, it would be It would be great to have them in the story, trying to figure out what's going on in the background, like, what this background is, and maybe they work at the Met, because it's right at Central Park, you know, somehow connect that.
right. So yeah, in an effort to figure out how to deal with this antagonistic creature, they seek out that expert's help or the expert somehow volunteers to help. Maybe the symbol was recognized and it drew that expert in and the expert sought out the girl as a witness to this because You know, here, this expert was curious and trying to understand, put the pieces together.
So it comes to find the [00:52:00] girl and then tries to help her escape this creature. And meanwhile, in the background, we're as the audience seen evidence more and more of some sort of supernatural. Threat developing and spreading at first just in New York or just around Central Park, but then later much more broadly worldwide.
We're getting hints of that, but not necessarily. The audience wouldn't necessarily put that together that this is a an apocalypse. Just yet, it just seems to be growing as a threat in the area. And they don't know if it's different creatures or there are a lot of these creatures or this one creature is doing this thing all over New York or around central park.
Um, so that's kind of where the audience would be at in the second act. Does that answer your
Mm hmm. Yeah, I think this would make for a very good series, because of the whole
think it could be interesting. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I, I think there's a way to strip it down and make it a, a relatively low budget independent film. Um, and I [00:53:00] like that idea, but I also think that there's enough here that you could expand it out and make a series. briefly in the third act, that's going to be about the uncle and the girl and maybe other characters that they've incorporated trying to survive.
This apocalypse, trying to get away from the city. Uh, one of the things I, I wanted in the background, like the background mythology is this idea that in the second act, they figure out, as I said, the nature of the supernatural creature or the magic creature that you're dealing with is dictated by where the materials, uh, in that area are from in the world.
So if it's stone from, you know, I don't know, Ireland, uh, then you might be dealing with a Banshee. Right? If it's, um, uh, like, uh, let's
Stonehenge stones, the druids, like that
Yeah, exactly. Vampires, if it's [00:54:00] from certain parts of Europe and et cetera, et cetera. Right. So, uh, that that's one of the fundamental rules and it's one of the reasons why cities like New York are hit extremely hard because there's such a high concentration of materials from all over the world.
And as a result, There are more likely to be supernatural characters, uh, entities, uh, and rules. And, you know, some of that could be good, some of that could be bad, like not all supernatural is evil, but because modern humans don't have any real knowledge, like the average person does not understand any of this stuff.
There's no cultural knowledge around how to deal with this, that they quickly, you know, suffer accidents, illnesses. You know, they don't know how to deal with it. Um, so I liked that, but in act three, I, or later in the season or perhaps later in the series, I wanted to introduce the idea that previously when magic was around, when different [00:55:00] cultures, uh, developed an understanding of these rules, they didn't really have, uh, materials that were combined or alloys that were created from.
Substances that were the world. So one of the things I wanted to reveal is that when you create an alloy, or when you blend or construct two materials from different parts of the world, you introduce the idea of creating a supernatural. Creature or magical rule that is a blending of things you would previously have only found in different parts of the world.
So it actually could make new creatures, new, new rules, new magical threats, or even opportunities because it's like you've alloyed, you've blended these supernatural creatures together. Does that make
sense?
Yeah, so like a
they no longer have the same. Exactly. You know, you no longer have the [00:56:00] same weaknesses. So even if you do understand, oh, okay, this is a, a banshee.
And the way to deal with that is don't go certain places at certain times of day or year or whatever. And then if you do that, you're smart, you're fine, right? Uh, you can handle a werewolf with wolves, Bane, or, you know, a vampire with silver crosses or whatever the rules are, um, but because. You've taken, you know, materials from different parts of the world and you've combined them and built structures and so on.
Now you've got these hybrid threats and they play by different rules. So even people who did figure out in Act II, independently, sort of off screen, that okay, I get what I'm dealing with. I recognize what this is. I'm gonna use, you know, play by, I'm gonna look it up online, figure out what are the rules to deal with this threat according to the mythology of people from that region and I'll deal with it.
That doesn't really work anymore because of there's the, you know, the nature of magic. Does it make sense?
Yeah. It reminds me of a movie with Natalie Portman that came out on [00:57:00] Netflix a little while ago. And, long story short, they end up in this kind of alternate universe where human DNA and plant DNA is kind of spliced together. So you get these creatures that are part plant, part, um, or animal DNA, and plant DNA can get kind of pulled together in this alternate reality.
So, it just reminded me of
very, very similar. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So if it's a if it's a film, then I want to scale it all down. And there's just hints of this. And it's something that two people like us would sit down and discuss and maybe guess at. The underlying rules, but it isn't going to be as explicitly stated.
It's just going to be, there's going to be evidence of this and maybe people figure it out or maybe they don't. But the point is to make a really compelling story about this girl and her uncle, uh, and maybe other characters and what [00:58:00] happens to them. And there's a theme and a message and so on. If it's a series, then you have more breathing room to explore this stuff and add more characters and show how it affects them.
But I'd still like it to be relatively tight on the characters because I really want this pitch to be more character driven. Uh, so what do you think? Anything you would add, take away? I have a few questions we can discuss, but do you have any other reactions?
Sure, I like the idea of stripping it down, because if you're going to have it as an art house piece, I think you have all the elements there in order to make it work as a 90 minute film. On a very low budget too. You know, if you don't really, I mean, there are parts obviously that would take some special effects to do like the shape shifting element, you know, but if you stripped it down into where it's, it's one creature that you don't really see so much, but the girls interacting with, it's leaving more evidence about what it's doing in front of her, like doing the symbols in the ground, you know, you're [00:59:00] kind of seeing it, but not really seeing it.
And then that relationship between the girl and her uncle, and you really play that up. It can be like, um, Let the Right One In, you know that movie?
Yes. Yes. Excellent example. Yes. That's exactly the kind of tension in scenes that I would like. That's a really perfect example of tone and their conversations and so on. Yeah.
So there's some, you know, pivotal scenes within the movie that really raise that tension. Or, it also reminds me of The Omen. That idea, this like, it's very, very ominous. It's a slow burn, you know. Or I think it's the father is really behind the kid or really supportive of, of Damien. But everyone else around them sees that something's wrong.
I mean, I could see that playing here, too. Where instead of jumping into the investigation, it's that she reveals what she saw, but no one believes her.[01:00:00]
right.
And then how that
can definitely do that.
more along the, more along the thread of that, like, character arc. Like how each each character is developing. She's trying to get people's attention, but maybe she can't and there's this element of her where she's really shut down or really, you know, inside of her head.
And maybe she goes to see a psychologist, for instance, and they're trying to work with her a little bit. And she just seems odd. But the audience knows that there's there's clearly something happening here. But then that tension builds until it's it's seemingly too late, you know,
Yeah,
absolutely. That's exactly what I'm looking for. For this version of this pitch. Yeah, yeah, so the audience initially is very focused on this girl. And her, you know, emotional state. And they know that something real is happening to her. And then in Act 2, I'd like them to have an aha moment where they [01:01:00] realize the scope of this problem is much bigger.
Uh, but maybe the characters don't realize that, uh, until later, right, until later in Act Two. So, yeah, that's the kind of journey. And you're setting the tone. I think you've got the right idea for the visuals and the touchstone pieces for this. Yeah.
It would be, it would be really great to see some type of twist where you do a flashback to that train and what was happening on that train right before it derailed and her parents were killed. I'm thinking maybe something's revealed about magic there. They're telling her something. Did you have that in
can reveal that now. Yes. Uh, so the creature that the train hit is called a raiju, which is basically like a thunder dog. So it's a mythological creature from that part of Japan. That is a, it's a dog that. Is often described as being connected to lightning or [01:02:00] having lightning around it. So that's, it was a supernatural creature and the train struck it and that triggered the lightning and the release of force because striking a dog or even a lightning strike wouldn't.
To my knowledge necessarily derail a modern train, but because this was a supernatural creature, the force was enough to knock the train off the tracks. But I didn't want to make that clear with the visuals in the beginning. I just wanted it to seem like an almost random tragic event. Like a train hit a dog and because it was a storm and so on, or, you know, the weather was bad or the visibility wasn't good.
That's the connection. It's just a coincidence that it hit a dog and then, uh, you know, lightning hit it and got derailed, but that was actually a, another example. And so looking back or discussing it later, people could realize that there was a hint that it was worldwide and not just tied to this girl.
But I think initially people will think there's something about this girl and because it was a dog in [01:03:00] the first scene. That what she encounters later in Central Park is an animal that shape shifts. I think people's minds will be like, oh, was that the same animal? Is it coming to get revenge? Was it like related to that animal?
Like what was, maybe it killed its friend, you know what's going on?
I see. Yeah, I, I like that part about that animal being supernatural. And I also like this idea of possibly having the parents telling her that this is what's actually happening in the world, but like, not revealing the entire thing. And then the, the, so she knows something that everyone around her doesn't know.
Uh
that's why, and maybe that would influence the way the story ends up resolving or her ability to maybe destroy that creature or help in some way that you
wouldn't
Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I like that. Uh, so yeah, there are a lot of seeds you could plant depending on [01:04:00] what kind of ending you want. And I think the ending depends a lot on what our theme or our message is for the story. I also didn't color in the uncle too much because I really, again, as a character driven pitch, whenever I, we, we would make it.
Uh, officially, I would want the uncle character to represent or, um, play a role in conveying the theme or the message that we want from this story. So if you remember when we discussed pulse, we talked a lot about loneliness as a theme about human connectivity being inherently threatening or pointless and some of those other ideas.
So I think a good version of this as a film and probably also as a stream, uh, streaming show or a novel series or whatever is that you have a message, right? You have a theme. Um, so any thoughts? I have some thoughts about what that would be, but any thoughts in your mind about what this story would be trying to say that's relevant to today's life?
[01:05:00] And I think the loneliness theme is a natural theme to
Right. She is isolated. Yeah,
he's isolated as well. So if you want to make it seem... If you want to do this on a very low budget and make it more arthouse than your traditional horror film, that could be the theme. And maybe that them working together to kind of defeat this creature could kind of bring them closer together as like a father daughter type of relationship that, you know, that she needs and he also needs.
Something
Yeah. Actually. Yeah. Yeah. Just building on that a little bit. If the point is that as, or the message is that as a society, we are fractured and that it takes community to survive, right? So these magical supernatural creatures were previously managed, uh, by community. Like there was a shared. Wisdom and connectivity and [01:06:00] people protected each other.
And because of that, they really established an equilibrium with these supernatural creatures, right? They weren't wiped out. They weren't constantly living in fear of, you know, vampires or whatever, leprechauns or something like that. They just shared knowledge. Like this is how you avoid or manage these.
Magical rules or, or things that exist in this world. And now in our modern society, yeah, there's a ton of us and we live close together, but we have very little actual community. Um, and so loneliness and isolation could be the theme. And then this idea that community and connectivity in a meaningful, not like social media, but actually people who share physical space together and knowledge and are dependent on each other to survive or to get through the day or to get anything done.
There's value that protects us, right? So I think that works.
Yeah, and I think you could really build up that character in the beginning just showing his day to day before he actually meets [01:07:00] his niece, you know, like his kind of day to day and maybe his interactions with his neighbors who later on come into play when it's time to, you know, um,
right. Like he has no connectivity with the people that live in his building. He doesn't know them. He doesn't, you know, he barely recognizes them or just bobs his head when he goes by. But, um, it later on in act two, it's that connectivity, that community that's established that becomes a protective factor.
Yeah, that works. There's a message there for sure. And they form, and I like that because it's like almost like forming a tribe. Right. To deal with what was previously like a tribal essentially. So good. Yeah, that, that really works. Any other thoughts about that?
it would be an interesting way to set up the story. So you have the train, the accident in the beginning, and then how she ends up coming to To America, right, to, to live with the uncle, [01:08:00] that parallel, shifting between those two stories and how they end up together, that would be a great part of that first act, you know, and then leading into her discovery of this creature, and then that leads into the second act,
Yeah. No, I think that it works. Yeah. I think there's, it's not that hard to lay it out. And I have a lot more of an idea of what you could do in the second act and the third, but I wanted intentionally to leave it open because I feel like that's where I want the theme. To be pronounced and I want the characters to finish their arcs and so it's better to leave it unclear until those things are filled in a little bit more.
But yeah, I think that that first act really kind of flows nicely. Um, there's some dialogue that's we'd have to fill in specifically to match to set up themes and all that. But yeah,
yeah, and I feel like it could be a script that could be, you know, less dialogue heavy, and a lot more visual,
yeah.
Because of [01:09:00] what's going on with the characters, how they're, you know, their actions are really what's kind of driving, driving the story. It's not these long winded conversations between them that's going to drive the story, right?
So it's more like an atmospheric type of movie than it is just straight dialogue and really obvious dialogue that kind of explains what's happening. So it would be really great to be able to... To visually explain as much as possible, you know, whether it's simple things of like how Spartan apartment he has, what his day to day looks like, where she ends up, does she end up in some kind of holding area or orphanage at first or something?
And that's, that's how they end up seeing each other. Maybe it's some type of phone call that he gets, but you don't hear what's on the other end. You're just seeing his reactions to things. I think that would help to build this kind of process. ominous vibe for the whole, [01:10:00] the whole movie.
that would fit perfectly with what I was aiming for. So yes. Uh, and so we have our theme. Our theme is isolation versus true connectivity like tribe and community. So isolation versus community. And in the first act, we do a lot to visually show isolation and use silence and a minimal soundtrack to create some unease, some darker palette and darker lighting to create a little bit of an ominous feel the character.
Is the main character of the young girl is isolated multiple times, and that's when she's in the most danger. So that all fits really well. Um, I did put a little bit of thought into a potential theme, so I don't think this is as good. But alternatively, if we wanted to make a parallel theme or an additional theme or a separate theme around the idea of how people are [01:11:00] overconfident and their opinions about reality, and sometimes that makes them too rigid.
Uh, then I like that because you could have the uncle represent that a lot and he could die in the third act because he keeps trying to force what's happening into his existing belief system. Whereas the girl and maybe other characters survive because they're more flexible and open to challenging their or changing their fundamental beliefs about how the world works.
And I like that as a theme. It feels very relevant today to me because I think one of the problems we face, certainly in America, is this idea that so many people are so sure that their way of making sense of reality is correct and that anyone who disagrees with that is wrong. And so all new information just kind of gets funneled into one polar.
Side or the opposite and people just sort of form around that but I but again I don't think that's quite as good. [01:12:00] It does kind of work with this idea of like well magic is back So the rules are changing so you really need you can't force it into some sort of scientific understanding You have to adapt and keep an open mind and accept like I don't know I'm gonna wake up each day not knowing and I need to construct New rules, but I think this idea of loneliness first community is simpler, easier and certainly resonates with people or would resonate with people.
To your point about him being stuck in his own viewpoint, is his viewpoint religious? Is it...
I was thinking more science more like, um, there's a logic to this. You know, we need to figure it out. Uh, in act two in particular, that's more pronounced. Like I would make him a scientist like an act one. He's like a geologist or something. And then in act two, he realizes, no, the rules are there. Like the nature of the creature is determined by where the materials, where it is, where you see it or where you [01:13:00] encounter it, where they're from.
Um, so he's like, I get this, right? There's a logic to this. It's rational or it's, it's almost scientific. And then he, you know, as he encounters this idea that like, well, but when materials are combined, then the supernatural or the magical elements are combined. So again, it's very confusing, but he just won't accept that.
Right, or some other aspect of magic that he just will not accept or this, even this idea that community is the answer he will not accept because his view of reality is rigid and he's trying to force everything into it, like all the new information, but I don't know if that's necessary in this better version that we've constructed.
Yeah, I think there's, this is very promising. I think when you have a concept like this, you can turn it into so many different types of properties. So I could see it as a feature length film. I could see it as an 8 episode mini series. [01:14:00] kind of exploring this theme as a slow burn, you know, more character driven.
I could see it as a short film that just focuses on the little girl. We strip it down even more, you know, and there's,
we could do that. Definitely.
one creature you have to. She's defeated somehow at the end using some knowledge that she has previously or that's revealed, let's say, in the second act, so I guess like minute, you know, let's say minute five or whatever it is.
It's completely visual. I could even see it as being like almost a silent film
Oh, yeah. Yeah, because well, I did intentionally put her in an environment where speaking isn't going to be something naturally she would do because of the language and the trauma. So I like that kind of quiet awkwardness. And that does you right, you could make it a silent film, they would make sense.
and you could explain a lot through flashbacks, very, very short flashbacks about her background and [01:15:00] where she ended up. Maybe other characters speak, but she never does. You know, so she's just absorbing everything and then when she encounters this creature in Central Park, then quickly it's revealed what's happening, like where it's coming from and then the end just becomes, you know, how she's able to defeat it or maybe the adults in her world aren't able to do anything, but she's able to do it somehow off from
Or she's Or she's lost at the end, you know, it's just a, a tragic story where because she's so disconnected and isolated, she becomes prey and that's the end of it. But I like what you're saying, how with so little dialogue, almost no one speaking, or when people, she never speaks. But when people do, it's almost in the background or there's like a degree of, um, audio distortion to make it seem like she's barely registering what people are saying.
But then when the creature speaks, [01:16:00] even though it's speaking in a foreign language, uh, and it just says one word or one phrase, having the audio on that be more normal would be disturbing. You know, would make it that much more chilling. So I really liked that. So, yeah, so I think when people think about magic returning to current day, they tend to think in terms of big budget, you know, giant dragons walking down the street and like really, uh, exaggerated.
Versions. But when you look at mythology in most places around the world, magic was always in the background, the shadows, like it wasn't really clear and obvious. So that's the degree of it that I would like, you know, this idea that it it's just present again, slowly in the world, but it never really gets to this kind of ridiculous.
Uh, super high budget film level. It's just part of [01:17:00] existence and it can be very dangerous, but only if you don't understand the rules or you don't do the things that people learn to do to protect themselves from it. It's never like giant monsters, you know, knocking over buildings or anything like that.
Yeah, I like that. It doesn't have to reveal itself all at once either. It could take millennia.
Yes, very good. And I had some ideas about why now, like why would magic be returning? Uh, I like to think of it as a cyclical thing throughout the history of the earth or maybe even the solar system is that it, it sort of comes and goes based on reasons that I, I, you know, I thought about, but I don't want to get into all that because.
You don't really need to, and it pulls focus away from these characters. It is a lot like when we talked about the gravity lost a story break episode where we really, you know, like I said, then, like, I don't really want to get into this whole like sci fi or let's explain everything because it's a more atmospheric, like personal piece.
And that I think you, [01:18:00] what was the word you had for it for that
hmm. Like magical
a real. Yeah, exactly. Um, so that's really where I want this tone to be as well.
Yeah, and I think if you're looking at this in terms of budget, to make it work but also be very low budget, I think you have to do that. There's no other way around it. You have to turn it into a character centered piece that has these elements in the background, like you said. And that's totally fine. If it's done well, and you understand the characters and what they're going through, In the context of the movie, there's not an issue, but if you don't really give them really good background hooks, then it falls apart because it just
Yeah,
a plot point and there's no arc, you know what I mean?
Nothing's really happening. It's just like a creature. We've got to kill the creature. Okay, the creature is dead. Oh, everyone's saved the end, you know?
right, right. Yeah, absolutely. And I really wanted to steer away from that. So I think, uh, [01:19:00] I think we did a good job with this one. Any other elements or any questions that you have for this, this particular pitch?
No, I mean, I think we covered pretty much everything in terms of how we could see her character develop, the relationship with the uncle, and you could add more backstory about the uncle, make him a little bit more dynamic for the way he is that, you know, why he's acting the way he's acting, what was the relationship between him and the parents, but then you're kind of moving off into
a
moving the focus.
Yep.
For what we're
broadening the scope, you're making, you're making the audience I think that he his background and all these other things are going to be really central to the story and what's happening. Uh, so yeah, I think some of that is good and what we do reveal about him, I'd like to be in line with the theme that we identified.
Uh, and I'd like it to be relevant to [01:20:00] his end, whether he survives or not, but I, I really don't want to do too much of that. Yeah, I think you've got the right idea there. Anything else,
No, I think this is a really
anything that. Thank you. Is there anything we should ask the audience? What do you think they would want to know or add?
I'd love to know what they would do if there was a big budget versus a no budget or a low budget movie.
Yeah. And along those lines, what format do you see this as? Like a graphic novel series, like Walking Dead. Do you see this as a streaming series? Would you rather it be like novels? Do you think it's great as like a low, relatively low budget, independent horror film? Would you switch genres? You know, would you like it more as fantasy or fantasy adventure?
Uh, you know, what do you think? So I think that those are both great questions. You asked about a central antagonist. We can beef up or scale back the role of this, uh, [01:21:00] Native American spirit, this animal spirit, uh, to be that central character, we could really give it a lot of additional, we give it more dialogue or a more central focus, or just leave it as.
Initially the antagonist, but then it sort of fades into this magical background. So I'd be really curious what people think about that. Uh, do I'd also like to know, do people think we did an adequate job with this idea of a surprise apocalypse, like in act three, where people realize, Oh no, this is worldwide and this is going to completely disrupt society.
I don't know that we really got into that. Any other questions, any other thoughts, the theme, people have opinions on the theme.
Yeah,
I think it's a, it's a good one.
All right. So I guess that's a wrap on, uh, the return of magic. That sound like a plan. Good. All right. Well, as always, thank you to the listeners. Thank you to my cohost Kerrigan over there.
Uh, we are [01:22:00] on Instagram, YouTube, all the socials. If you want to check us out, uh, feel free to do that. We put a little time in and launched everywhere. Uh, put some good stuff in the show notes. Hopefully that'll be helpful. If you're curious about anything we talked about today, next time we're coming back, uh, do you know what we're coming back with?
Uh, Dead Heat, I
Next episode. Dead heat. Dead heat next week. Until then, set a course, take it slow, make it happen. Thanks a lot everybody.
Bye everybody. Thanks.